Freewill

[kross]

Here is a simple explaination of freewill;

Each of us has it in us to make choices. Those choices will be based in our nature and the forces that influence us. There are 3 "wills" at work in this world, GOD's, Satan's, and man's. OF those three, man is by far the weakest. Left to his own devises, he will make decissions based on his flesh.

LEft to the will of Satan, he will sin and curse GOD until he dies.

When influenced by GOD, he will choose to do good works that are pleasing to GOD.

If a man does anything that is good, by GOD's standards, it will be the good that GOD puts in him to do it.

If GOD wants/needs a person to be in a particular place at a particular time for a particular reason, GOD will see to it that person is there. This will be done without "forcing" the person. Rather, it will be done by that person wanting to be there. This as a result of GOD using what HE knows will influence that person to make the choices to be at the right place at the right time.

IF a person is about to choose to sin, the HOLY SPIRIT can give extra strength to the person so that temptation is resisted. Or, the HOLY SPIRIT can choose not to. Since it is the nature of man (influenced by Satan) to sin, the man will have made a "freewill" choice to sin. This having been allowed by GOD to serve some eternally greater good. THIS IN NO WAY REMOVES THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BAD CHOICES FROM THE ONE WHO MAKES THEM. What is does do is give GOD the glory for the right choices when they are made.

The simple truth is, if I do anything good, it is because of CHRIST who lives in me. IF I sin, it is because that is my nature when not altered by the HOLY SPIRIT. So, I can not claim that anything good I do is of me or my will, and I would rather not have my will be free knowing that I would turn from GOD in a minute if HE isn't keeping me. (Thank you JESUS that not only do you have the power to present me faultless before the throne of grace, but that you are willing and want to present me faultless)

We know this to be true in part because scripture clearly teaches us that there is one who now restrains the evil on the Earth. IF, therefore, there is one who restrains, this shows that the one who restrains has control.

Since we know that every demon and angel is under the control of JESUS the CHRIST, we know that no demon does anything that is not allowed by HIM.

What "freewill" man has, he has within the confines of GOD's plan and purpose, and thus is free in as far as it is in the realm of GOD's will.

GOD, throughout the Bible, determines the actions of evil men doing bad things. Pharoah, Judas, The Babilonians just to name a few. GOD, throughout the Bible, places people in places specifically for service to HIM in accordance with HIS plans and purposes, Joseph and Ester to name a couple.

I get that freewill has been taught to many people for many generations. I even get that the Bible exhorts us to good works and to hold fast and to persevere, which is used to prove that we have freewill. Truth is, exhortations serve the HOLY SPIRIT by communication of principals that HE then guides us into.

NOw, I know I have just open the hornets nest and laid myself out there to be called all kinds of name, that will be nothing new. Someday, we will all know what is what.

JESUS prayed, "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in HEaven". I have never known one of HIS prayers to go unanswerred.

HIS peace to you and yours

[Guest LadyC]

you need to dig deeper so that you can gain a clear understanding of the difference between God's soveriegn (i.e. ultimate) will and God's perfect will. that is going to be your key to understanding the free will that God has given us over our own decisions.

[kross]

Something from another thread that I wanted to add here.

Yet, GOD created Satan with the nature that Satan had. GOD created Satan with full understanding of what Satan was and would become. Even before Satan was made, GOD knew exactly what HE was creating. So, how does one then try to distance GOD from HIS creation? IS it possible that GOD was caught by surprise? Because it is as simple as understanding that GOD created everything with full knowledge of what HE was creating and what it would become, even before HE created it. This infers rather strongly that GOD created it to be what it is. IF HE didn't want evil in the world, HE would have made the world differently. If it was not HIS plan to have Satan doing what Satan does, HE would have made him differently.

If this is not so, then you can not believe that HE can create a new paradise without the same thing happening all over again. (unless you believe HE will remove this "freewill" and make us all "Puppets in paradise) The only hope that GOD can keep sin and evil out of Heaven, or off the New Earth, is if we understand that it is not in this one by mistake. (unless you feel GOD learned from the mistake HE made in this creation and will not do that again)

HE had and has a plan that is going forward unhindered until the day of the glory of JESUS the SON.

[kross]

you need to dig deeper so that you can gain a clear understanding of the difference between God's soveriegn (i.e. ultimate) will and God's perfect will. that is going to be your key to understanding the free will that God has given us over our own decisions.

I do understand GOD's spoken/revealed will and GOD's sovereign will. I understand that GOD has revealed to us what is required to live with HIM and to conform to HIS nature. I also understand that GOD is in full control of everything that goes on in the world. Every demon and evil spirit is fully controlled by HIM.

[Guest LadyC]

so if every demon is under the control of God, then God causes all evil that occurs, is that what you're saying? that every evil act is God's will? every child molestation, every physical beating, every murder, every rape, those are all God's will?

[alex73]

Here is a simple explaination of freewill;

Each of us has it in us to make choices. Those choices will be based in our nature and the forces that influence us. There are 3 "wills" at work in this world, GOD's, Satan's, and man's. OF those three, man is by far the weakest. Left to his own devises, he will make decissions based on his flesh.

LEft to the will of Satan, he will sin and curse GOD until he dies.

When influenced by GOD, he will choose to do good works that are pleasing to GOD.

If a man does anything that is good, by GOD's standards, it will be the good that GOD puts in him to do it.

If GOD wants/needs a person to be in a particular place at a particular time for a particular reason, GOD will see to it that person is there. This will be done without "forcing" the person. Rather, it will be done by that person wanting to be there. This as a result of GOD using what HE knows will influence that person to make the choices to be at the right place at the right time.

IF a person is about to choose to sin, the HOLY SPIRIT can give extra strength to the person so that temptation is resisted. Or, the HOLY SPIRIT can choose not to. Since it is the nature of man (influenced by Satan) to sin, the man will have made a "freewill" choice to sin. This having been allowed by GOD to serve some eternally greater good. THIS IN NO WAY REMOVES THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BAD CHOICES FROM THE ONE WHO MAKES THEM. What is does do is give GOD the glory for the right choices when they are made.

The simple truth is, if I do anything good, it is because of CHRIST who lives in me. IF I sin, it is because that is my nature when not altered by the HOLY SPIRIT. So, I can not claim that anything good I do is of me or my will, and I would rather not have my will be free knowing that I would turn from GOD in a minute if HE isn't keeping me. (Thank you JESUS that not only do you have the power to present me faultless before the throne of grace, but that you are willing and want to present me faultless)

We know this to be true in part because scripture clearly teaches us that there is one who now restrains the evil on the Earth. IF, therefore, there is one who restrains, this shows that the one who restrains has control.

Since we know that every demon and angel is under the control of JESUS the CHRIST, we know that no demon does anything that is not allowed by HIM.

What "freewill" man has, he has within the confines of GOD's plan and purpose, and thus is free in as far as it is in the realm of GOD's will.

GOD, throughout the Bible, determines the actions of evil men doing bad things. Pharoah, Judas, The Babilonians just to name a few. GOD, throughout the Bible, places people in places specifically for service to HIM in accordance with HIS plans and purposes, Joseph and Ester to name a couple.

I get that freewill has been taught to many people for many generations. I even get that the Bible exhorts us to good works and to hold fast and to persevere, which is used to prove that we have freewill. Truth is, exhortations serve the HOLY SPIRIT by communication of principals that HE then guides us into.

NOw, I know I have just open the hornets nest and laid myself out there to be called all kinds of name, that will be nothing new. Someday, we will all know what is what.

JESUS prayed, "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in HEaven". I have never known one of HIS prayers to go unanswerred.

HIS peace to you and yours

><> ><> Hornets are God's creation. I wonder if God can use them for good

I agree with all you have written, it declares your heart & God's leading in your life. I shows biblical application in life. Thanks.

[alex73]

so if every demon is under the control of God, then God causes all evil that occurs, is that what you're saying? that every evil act is God's will? every child molestation, every physical beating, every murder, every rape, those are all God's will?

><> ><> The evil one can only do what God allows. ''All thing work together for good'' God's in charge, ALL the time. or He isn't God.

[alex73]

so if every demon is under the control of God, then God causes all evil that occurs, is that what you're saying? that every evil act is God's will? every child molestation, every physical beating, every murder, every rape, those are all God's will?

><> ><> So all you do wrong is God's fault.????!!!!

[Guest LadyC]

no alex, that is not my assertion, it is (or was) kross's assertion. it appears he edited his post, because originally he had stated that every demon was under the complete control of God and did only what God wanted it to do.

he had made a similar statement in another thread, and i had asked the exact same question (if he believed that rape, child molestation, etc was the will of God), and instead of responding to it he accused me of having a superiority complex.

my point, and i'm saying this for him more than you, was to try to get him to see the water flooding through the holes in his doctrinal theory. i was trying hard to get him to recognize the difference between God's sovereign will (that ultimately, God will use even horrific circumstances to glorify Him in the end) and God's perfect will (what He wants us to do, but we often choose to be disobedient and do our own thing.)

kross, i believe you have come to recognize that the way you were presenting your opinion did not reflect the nature of God... and that instead of admitting that, you are trying to make it appear that was what you were saying all along. and while i do understand that from a personal view and don't mind so much, it's really not fair to others who come into this thread and suddenly think that the questions i challenged you with were how *i* believed. and while they may never know, God does see the pride and deception there, and it is He who is disappointed by it.

[kross]

so if every demon is under the control of God, then God causes all evil that occurs, is that what you're saying? that every evil act is God's will? every child molestation, every physical beating, every murder, every rape, those are all God's will?

Since scripture is very clear that the demons obey JESUS, that would mean that all that they do is under HIS ability to stop at any time. Since we see in Job that Satan must ask GOD to permit him, we see Satan and his work have a purpose in GODs plan.

It's not that GOD has to send them to do evil, they do that as a result of their nature, but they can not do anything GOD doesn't allow. Since we know that GOD has been and is keeping evil in check, to the level HE chooses to allow, it must be that what is taking place fits what HE intends to take place