Communion - Bread and Wine

[mizzdy]

Both Acts 20:7 and historical documents attest to this, and those that think Constantine changed things are also just plain wrong.

G4521

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

In case you don't have a Strongs or anyother study aide here is your first day of the week in greek, the day means Sabbath, so it was the first of the Sabbaths, they were counting the omer to Shavout or Pentecost. So Acts 20:7 would read something like this,

Now on the fist of the sabbaths when the disciples came together to break bread....

The Greek interlinear bibles also have first day of the week as first of the Sabbaths. The verses show that apostles were gathered together on the seventh day of the week on the Sabbath and the day turns into the next day and that was the 'first' sabbath of counting down to Shavuot. Now JC can you please show me anything else that shows the Sabbath was changed to Sunday from the scriptures?

[JCISGD]

Both Acts 20:7 and historical documents attest to this, and those that think Constantine changed things are also just plain wrong.

G4521

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

In case you don't have a Strongs or anyother study aide here is your first day of the week in greek, the day means Sabbath, so it was the first of the Sabbaths, they were counting the omer to Shavout or Pentecost. So Acts 20:7 would read something like this,

Now on the fist of the sabbaths when the disciples came together to break bread....

The Greek interlinear bibles also have first day of the week as first of the Sabbaths. The verses show that apostles were gathered together on the seventh day of the week on the Sabbath and the day turns into the next day and that was the 'first' sabbath of counting down to Shavuot. Now JC can you please show me anything else that shows the Sabbath was changed to Sunday from the scriptures?

Mizzdy the disciples did not gather on the seventh day but the first, i dont know how you come to your conclusion but im sure it wouldnt hold water with a reputable bible scholar.

The two Marys did not go to the tomb on the seventh day sabbath that would be a violation.

We seem to have vastly different rules for bible interpretation. Have you heard the expression "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".

When two groups of people are saying the bible says such and such, I will take the word of proven men of God who knew their bibles back to front and upside down and were used supernaturally by God to win countless souls, over that of those with some head knowledge.

Where are your historical documents to back up what you say, surely there would be more than a few given that the supposed errors would have been refuted rigourously at their inception?

[JCISGD]

Firstly i need to correct Onelight, i am not and do not insist anyone observe any day in particular. Most pastors i know rest on a monday or friday.

Relax ... I never pointed a finger at you. I made a general statement.

Relaxing....now.

Secondly i need to correct myself, not everything is about me

[other one]

Both Acts 20:7 and historical documents attest to this, and those that think Constantine changed things are also just plain wrong.

G4521

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

In case you don't have a Strongs or anyother study aide here is your first day of the week in greek, the day means Sabbath, so it was the first of the Sabbaths, they were counting the omer to Shavout or Pentecost. So Acts 20:7 would read something like this,

Now on the fist of the sabbaths when the disciples came together to break bread....

The Greek interlinear bibles also have first day of the week as first of the Sabbaths. The verses show that apostles were gathered together on the seventh day of the week on the Sabbath and the day turns into the next day and that was the 'first' sabbath of counting down to Shavuot. Now JC can you please show me anything else that shows the Sabbath was changed to Sunday from the scriptures?

Mizz, that word may be used as the seventh, or it can be the group of seven which would be "week" In the context of this verse it really is speaking of a seven day period of time. It is the first day of the (seven day period of time).

[nebula]

And so the question remains unanswered why he thinks we are claiming salvation apart from Christ.

Ok i was feeling swamped but because you asked so nicely i will try one more time to explain my thinking, but i dont promise its logical

Firstly i need to correct Onelight, i am not and do not insist anyone observe any day in particular. Most pastors i know rest on a monday or friday.

Neb, if anyone chooses to observe saturday as their day of rest i have no problem.

But as soon as they try to tell me the seventh day is the real sabbath or that it is the same as the Lords Day, then that is wrong and is Judaism trying to foister its observances on christians, who are at liberty to ignore keeping the seventh day as they are now in the new covenant.

clear as mud?

Thanks, but that did not answer the question that was asked.

[UncleAbee]

Col 2:16-17 - 16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Romans 14:4-6 - 4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

Keeping the Sabbath is a part of the 10 commandments law (Exodus 20:8). The 10 C's law was between three parties. They were God, Moses, and the other Israelites (Exodus 34:27). Being Gentiles we have no part in this covenent. We were strangers from the law until Christ came (Eph 2:12). If we are to keep one part of the law we must keep it all (James 2:10). Therefore if we treat the Sabbath as law we must sacrifice animals as well. Even though God sanctified the seventh day (Gen 2:3) He commanded no one to keep it as a worship day until Moses. This means that neither Adam, Eve, Enoch, Methusalah, Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob observed the Sabbath. There is no mention of people keeping the Sabbath until Moses. You see Jesus is our rest (Mat 11:28). Once you become united with Him you enter into that rest. Jesus has replaced all of the OT. Hebrews ch 4 discussed the believer's rest that is Jesus Christ.

The rest that God describes in Gen 2:2 is not the Hebrew Sabbath or any of the other Sabbaths described in the OT. It is the day God rested from creating the world. Even though the Hebrew rest is commanded on the same day it is not the same rest. God's rest is eternal. The Hebrew rest (system of Sabbaths) only applied to the Hebrews.

Edited December 9, 2010 by UncleAbee

[mizzdy]

Both Acts 20:7 and historical documents attest to this, and those that think Constantine changed things are also just plain wrong.

G4521

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

In case you don't have a Strongs or anyother study aide here is your first day of the week in greek, the day means Sabbath, so it was the first of the Sabbaths, they were counting the omer to Shavout or Pentecost. So Acts 20:7 would read something like this,

Now on the fist of the sabbaths when the disciples came together to break bread....

The Greek interlinear bibles also have first day of the week as first of the Sabbaths. The verses show that apostles were gathered together on the seventh day of the week on the Sabbath and the day turns into the next day and that was the 'first' sabbath of counting down to Shavuot. Now JC can you please show me anything else that shows the Sabbath was changed to Sunday from the scriptures?

Mizz, that word may be used as the seventh, or it can be the group of seven which would be "week" In the context of this verse it really is speaking of a seven day period of time. It is the first day of the (seven day period of time).

Yes I know I wasn't debating the Sabbath per se but showing that it the day of Sabbath was not transfered to Sunday and somehow the Passover is now turned into something new not even ordained by Him since He is really clear He is at a Passover meal. How can this verse show this is the some new Lord's supper is what I am asking. Most remember that biblically the days start at twilight when the stars come out, night to night is how God ordained them not morning to morning and Acts 20 is showing that after the feast of Unleavened bread Paul was teaching on the Sabbath the next day comes and turns into the next day, how does this show a change in Passover?

Most know that the Sabbath was changed by man and not God and I am not going to get into that discussion my emphasis is how can we see the Passover being changed into a brand new weekly communion? it doesn't we can read from those very ones who walked with the apostles that rome was changing things to fit their model and not the one Yeshua Himself followed. The same expression for 'breaking bread' can be found in many places, Acts 2, 27, 1 Cor. 11 for example. When Yeshua sat down with His disciples He Himself said how He wanted to have the Passover meal with them, the only reason people see something different is from John and if we read from history and such there were two sacrifices one for the Passover and one for the first day of Unleavened bread still on the same day as Passover so Yeshua could have been sacrificed as the second sacrifice of lambs were being done and still be the redeeming Passover lamb, we read in John that the priest would not go into Pilate because they would have become ritually unclean. I have searched and searched to see the biblical purification for those all who slaughtered their own lamb and have found none I certainly could be missing it. I do find that purification for the second. I cannot see a new weekly communion being given by Yeshua. Could He have been instituting something that went along with the Passover seder, perhaps but imo very doubtful but maybe if Polycarps writings were read by some then perhaps it will show forth that he being a disciple of John knew more than those who were living in Rome who did not know the apostles who knew the Messiah first hand and did as He did. But hey thats just me not telling anyone what to do or believe.

Mizz

[mizzdy]

Heres an interesting article on the sacrifices, sorry JC its a PDF hope you can open it.

[sheya joie]

Ok, I must not be understanding. I got as far as this:

Keeping the Sabbath is a part of the 10 commandments law (Exodus 20:8). The 10 C's law was between three parties. They were God, Moses, and the other Israelites (Exodus 34:27). Being Gentiles we have no part in this covenent.

and I went

I mean, if we Gentiles have no part in that covenant and therefore Sabbath-keeping is not for Gentiles - what about the rest of the 10 Commandments? Is it ok for Gentiles to steal and kill and lie and covet and commit adultery?

Feeling a bit freaked out here...

[JCISGD]

Ok, I must not be understanding. I got as far as this:

Keeping the Sabbath is a part of the 10 commandments law (Exodus 20:8). The 10 C's law was between three parties. They were God, Moses, and the other Israelites (Exodus 34:27). Being Gentiles we have no part in this covenent.

and I went

I mean, if we Gentiles have no part in that covenant and therefore Sabbath-keeping is not for Gentiles - what about the rest of the 10 Commandments? Is it ok for Gentiles to steal and kill and lie and covet and commit adultery?

Feeling a bit freaked out here...

hi Sheya joie, all men are under moral obligation to rest one day out of seven, but the sabbath day the Jews keep is not mandatory to Christians who are free to choose a diferent day, and many of whom live on the other side of the world making it literally impossible to keep.

Remember it is sundown to sundown or 6pm to 6 pm on the seventh day but that would not be the seventh day that God is watching on the other side of the world.

Jesus points out that the Preists work on the sabbath, and so also Pastors today rest on another day other than the common day observed by the congregation.

The 4th commandment is kept in spirit and truth by those who rest from their labours and join in fellowship one day out of every seven, that is why scripture says "let no man judge you concerning days"

As for the other 9 they too are kept by Christians but not as part of the old covenant.

I hope this helps