Answers to celibacy advocates.

[JCISGD]

Im posting this for those who are not fully convinced of Gods postion on celibacy and are prone to the delusions out there. They are not original and are copy and pasted from a brief refutal of them by Finney.

Any discussion welcome of course.

XVI. EVILS OF CLERICAL CELIBACY.

1. It is a war with nature.

2. It is a bad example, and encourages it in laymen.

3. It tends to licentiousness. This is a notorious fact.

4. Celibates cannot rebuke celibacy in laymen.

5. It is unjust to women.

6. Reproaches God, and implies a denial of his wisdom.

7. It is a constant temptation to unchastity.

8. It makes chaste women afraid of them.

9. It makes them a temptation to many women.

10. Makes them the terror of husbands.

11. Creates much jealousy in families.

12. Many do have and will have mistresses notorious (??).

13. Make the clergy generally odious.

14. Also, objects of suspicion.

15. Expose them to endless female intrigues.

16. Makes them selfish and unsocial.

17. Begets a contempt for women.

18. Corrupts society. This is a fact, see Catholic Europe.

19. It embarrasses them in their work in many ways.

20. Renders them incompetent to be a spiritual guide to females.

21. It embarrasses their spiritual development.

22. It is an error of the same class as nunneries and monasteries. It grew out of the idea that sin has its root in matter, and that the body is essentially impure, that its appetites must be annihilated.

23. Trial has demonstrated that the celibacy of the clergy is only evil continually.

24. Never justifiable except for the most cogent reasons.

25. As the reasons can't be generally made public, it falls under the rule, "do nothing that needs explanation when such explanation is impracticable."

XV. PAPISTICAL REASONS FOR PRIESTLY CELIBACY.

1. Marriage embarrassing to the spiritual life.

Answer:

(1) It is a help, as it prevents temptation.

(2) It cultivates many forms of virtue.

(3) It is in accordance with our nature.

(4) It is a necessity of the race, and its continuance.

2. Inconsistent with the example of Christ and Paul.

Their example justified by peculiar reasons.

3. Paul wished that all men were unmarried.

Answer:

(1) This, if it proves anything, proves too much.

(2) The wish was the result of the peculiar circumstances of the church at the time.

4. Paul's teaching and example imply a disapproval of marriage.

Answer:

(1) Not more so of priests, than of all.

(2) Paul guarded against this inference by expressly declaring marriage honorable in all, ministers and people.

5. Revelation represents those "who have not defiled themselves with women" as being more highly honored in heaven.

Answer:

(1) Whatever this means, it is not peculiar to ministers.

(2) The intercourse of the married is not defiling.

(3) The passage has reference to fornication and adultery.

(4) Paul considered marriage, with its duties and privileges as not defiling the bed.

(5) Paul denounced "forbidding to marry."

6. It is better for the spirit to deny and crush the flesh.

Answer:

(1) Then our animal nature is a mistake.

(2) Then we are justified in not propagating the race.

(3) Restraint within divinely appointed limits, and not the utter denial and annihilation of our constitutional appetites, is our law.

(4) Enoch walked with God 400 years and begat sons and daughters.

7. A family is a hindrance to a minister in his work.

Answer:

(1) This is exceptional. The reverse is the rule.

(2) If this were a necessary result, it should have prohibited the marriage of apostles and ministers.

(3) Paul asserts that he and Barnabas were at liberty to marry.

(4) A well-ordered family a constant help to a minister in many ways.

(5) The help more than counterbalances the hindrance.

8. A single man is less expensive to the church.

Answer:

(1) No minister at all would cost less still, in dollars.

(2) But to do without a minister would be too expensive.

(3) Churches can't afford to be without a whole pastor.

(4) A pastor's wife more than pays for her support.

(5) It is a shame for the church to take this view.

(6) This is seriously urged by the ritualists of England today.

(7) Especially as it respects curates and the lower clergy.

(8) They plead for an expensive clergy for the upper classes.

(9) And hence, for celibacy of the lower clergy, because they will be less expensive to the people.

(10) A minister can often keep house as cheaply as he can board - his garden, fruit, washing, and mending.

(11) Most congregations can pay him easier in the products of their industry.

(12) It is generally dangerous for a minister to board. It creates jealousy of the family in which he boards.

(13) Also, the woman where he boards.

(14) He needs the sacred enclosure and confidence of his own family.

[Believer1997]

Wow .... you do a lot of research on things like this, don't you?

[~candice~]

Some of these are just rediculous. Did you read it before you copied and pasted it?

[Miss Elly]

Im posting this for those who are not fully convinced of Gods postion on celibacy and are prone to the delusions out there. They are not original and are copy and pasted from a brief refutal of them by Finney.

Any discussion welcome of course.

XVI. EVILS OF CLERICAL CELIBACY.

1. It is a war with nature.

2. It is a bad example, and encourages it in laymen.

3. It tends to licentiousness. This is a notorious fact.

4. Celibates cannot rebuke celibacy in laymen.

5. It is unjust to women.

6. Reproaches God, and implies a denial of his wisdom.

7. It is a constant temptation to unchastity.

8. It makes chaste women afraid of them.

9. It makes them a temptation to many women.

10. Makes them the terror of husbands.

11. Creates much jealousy in families.

12. Many do have and will have mistresses notorious (??).

13. Make the clergy generally odious.

14. Also, objects of suspicion.

15. Expose them to endless female intrigues.

16. Makes them selfish and unsocial.

17. Begets a contempt for women.

18. Corrupts society. This is a fact, see Catholic Europe.

19. It embarrasses them in their work in many ways.

20. Renders them incompetent to be a spiritual guide to females.

21. It embarrasses their spiritual development.

22. It is an error of the same class as nunneries and monasteries. It grew out of the idea that sin has its root in matter, and that the body is essentially impure, that its appetites must be annihilated.

23. Trial has demonstrated that the celibacy of the clergy is only evil continually.

24. Never justifiable except for the most cogent reasons.

25. As the reasons can't be generally made public, it falls under the rule, "do nothing that needs explanation when such explanation is impracticable."

XV. PAPISTICAL REASONS FOR PRIESTLY CELIBACY.

1. Marriage embarrassing to the spiritual life.

Answer:

(1) It is a help, as it prevents temptation.

(2) It cultivates many forms of virtue.

(3) It is in accordance with our nature.

(4) It is a necessity of the race, and its continuance.

2. Inconsistent with the example of Christ and Paul.

Their example justified by peculiar reasons.

3. Paul wished that all men were unmarried.

Answer:

(1) This, if it proves anything, proves too much.

(2) The wish was the result of the peculiar circumstances of the church at the time.

4. Paul's teaching and example imply a disapproval of marriage.

Answer:

(1) Not more so of priests, than of all.

(2) Paul guarded against this inference by expressly declaring marriage honorable in all, ministers and people.

5. Revelation represents those "who have not defiled themselves with women" as being more highly honored in heaven.

Answer:

(1) Whatever this means, it is not peculiar to ministers.

(2) The intercourse of the married is not defiling.

(3) The passage has reference to fornication and adultery.

(4) Paul considered marriage, with its duties and privileges as not defiling the bed.

(5) Paul denounced "forbidding to marry."

6. It is better for the spirit to deny and crush the flesh.

Answer:

(1) Then our animal nature is a mistake.

(2) Then we are justified in not propagating the race.

(3) Restraint within divinely appointed limits, and not the utter denial and annihilation of our constitutional appetites, is our law.

(4) Enoch walked with God 400 years and begat sons and daughters.

7. A family is a hindrance to a minister in his work.

Answer:

(1) This is exceptional. The reverse is the rule.

(2) If this were a necessary result, it should have prohibited the marriage of apostles and ministers.

(3) Paul asserts that he and Barnabas were at liberty to marry.

(4) A well-ordered family a constant help to a minister in many ways.

(5) The help more than counterbalances the hindrance.

8. A single man is less expensive to the church.

Answer:

(1) No minister at all would cost less still, in dollars.

(2) But to do without a minister would be too expensive.

(3) Churches can't afford to be without a whole pastor.

(4) A pastor's wife more than pays for her support.

(5) It is a shame for the church to take this view.

(6) This is seriously urged by the ritualists of England today.

(7) Especially as it respects curates and the lower clergy.

(8) They plead for an expensive clergy for the upper classes.

(9) And hence, for celibacy of the lower clergy, because they will be less expensive to the people.

(10) A minister can often keep house as cheaply as he can board - his garden, fruit, washing, and mending.

(11) Most congregations can pay him easier in the products of their industry.

(12) It is generally dangerous for a minister to board. It creates jealousy of the family in which he boards.

(13) Also, the woman where he boards.

(14) He needs the sacred enclosure and confidence of his own family.

This is interesting and well documented. It makes the case for marriage, that's for sure! I do believe however, that some men (and women) are called to be single so that they can focus more on the Lord. But I believe this number to be very few, and apparently grace has to be given to them to be pure in this lifestyle.

Something humorous - I met an evangelist who held a revival at our church and during one of his sermons, he mentioned that God had called him to be single. He was a tall, handsome young man as well. He said, you guys wouldn't believe how many women come up to me after church and tell me that God told them they were to going to marry me. I would have to say, we don't serve the same God then, because I will never marry. I'm sure God gave him grace and a sense of humor about it, because numerous women chased after him all of the time. I guess a girl can dream...... He really had his act together, did not date and socialize excessively.

[JCISGD]

Some of these are just rediculous. Did you read it before you copied and pasted it?

Yes i read and understand it.

Can you give an example, you need to becareful to distinguish between that which is posted as the error and the refutal perhaps. It is 18th century english as well.

just clarify for everyone its not my research, i just copied it.

[JCISGD]

Miss Elly, i thought it good to post as even in my own circles it is thought by many that it is better not to marry, but Finney says thats incorrect interperetation and was only Pauls wish for that time as the Spirit forewarned that major persecution of the fledgling church was about to unfold.

I think Finney would disagree with that evangelist and does in his lists of reasons, namely that it is tormenting to single women and a strong temptation to single men. Is this man still standing ? Even if he is it is against the command to go forth and multiply which is only unapplicable in times of undue distress.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

I do not agree with this list.

This list almost implies that celibacy is a sin or something.

Well, I don't believe celibacy is a sin.

It is a choice that everyone has the right to make, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Priests and nuns know beforehand that in order to be a priest or a nun they are "required" to be celibate.

It is their choice, and if they don't want to be celibate they shouldn't become a priest or a nun.

[Hunterpoet]

I found God's position concerning celibacy in Matthew 19:12, For there are eunuchs, which were so born from their mothers womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of Heavens sake, he that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Concerning doing so for the Kingdom of Heavens sake...it should not be construed as being anything other than a personal choice and not part of an obligation to belong to a certain sect or priesthood.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

I found God's position concerning celibacy in Matthew 19:12, For there are eunuchs, which were so born from their mothers womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of Heavens sake, he that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Concerning doing so for the Kingdom of Heavens sake...it should not be construed as being anything other than a personal choice and not part of an obligation to belong to a certain sect or priesthood.

I agree, but obligations to belong to a certain sect or priesthood still exist.

Joining a certain sect or priesthood is also a personal choice.

So, if one doesn't agree with the obligations of a certain sect or priesthood they shouldn't join that sect or priesthood.

[humbleseeker]

common sence yet must abound. If you are a man and feel the need of a woman as most men do then find a good woman. same goes for woman and men. I do not believe in celebacy for clergy.