Israel is Israel?

[Guest shiloh357]

No, you misunderstood me.

Not again. I'm sorry.

That's okay. Just keep asking till you are satisfied that you understand what it is we are trying to say.

[Openly Curious]

'shiloh357' date='Jan 12 2010,

" is Israel, the physical descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Gentiles are grafted into Israel. They do not relpace or supplant biblical Israel. Nobody "replaces" anybody else. Such a notion is patently absurd.

The Israel of God today consists of all Christians

[Openly Curious]

Why are you confused?

When the Bible says "Israel" it means "Israel."

When the Bible says "church" it means ekklesia - the fellowship of the Lord Jesus.

The ekklesia of Jesus was founded and established by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago. It was a government. It was a government established by Jesus Christ.

Although you do not see a government within the assembilies today established to deal with those who are in known sins. Those who bring two witnesses against someone they should come before the ekklesia (court) to determine what action should be taken for example.

The church was taught not to take any disputes with a brother to the court of the land or with the churches outside of the church. But instead the church is suppose to judge those that are within the congregation. And it should be done this way so those outside the church will not see the wrong doings in the church and talk badly on the church casting a bad reputation. The ekklesia should be being a government than governs the church. The word tells us in the book of..........

1 Corinthians 5:11-13--But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicater, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extorioner; with such an one no not to eat. vs 12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? vs 13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

The church once again to deal with those who will not depart from sin. Government should be established within.......there are gifts of government given to the church.

1 Corinthians 12:27,28--Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. vs 28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps "GOVERNMENT" diversity of tongues.

As you can see that there are those in the body of Christ that are gifted with the gift of government. There are gifts of administrations........I am only going to share vs 4,5 I hope you will go back and read verses 1-11.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11--vs 4) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same spirit. vs. 5) And there are differences of "ADMINISTRATIONS" but the same Lord.

There are more than one administration gifts in the church. Administrations are like managers over different ministries within the church to see that everything is running properly and see that the ministries get there needs met for effective ministries. The administration would oversee and manage the church government as they carry out there position dealing with those in sin as this way there will be a trial and it the government or court (ekklesia) they will stand before.

[freeman455]

Israel has a unique calling from the Lord - which is why we see the Jews going through the greatest refining fires the world has ever seen.

Are you saying that the Jews are unique from the Gentiles even today?

All races are unique. The different Gentile races are unique from one another. "Unique" does not mean better, it simply means "different." God has a special calling on Israel to be a light to the nations. He has never rescinded that calling and will fulfill it completely during the Millennium when Jesus returns to earth to restore the Kingdom to Israel and rule the nations on the throne of David.

Satan hates Israel, and even now seeks to destroy them as God is restoring them to their Land. The Land of Israel is central to God's eternal covenant with Israel and that is why it is hotly contested. That is why the city of Jerusalem is so hotly contested and why the enemies of Israel seek to take it away from the Jewish nation.

Jerusalem has no natural resources. The city has no oil, coal, or natural gas. It does not have any precious metal or precious stones under its crust. Jerusalem does not even have its own water source. Water has to be piped in from outside of the city. From a purely geo-political standpoint, Jerusalem is a worthless piece of land. It just sand and rocks. The only value it has spiritual. It is part of the covenant land that God gave Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and if you recall, Abraham built four altars in the area we call "the West Bank" (which the Bible calls Judea and Samaria).

The enemies of Israel are attacking her at the precise locations that are at the heart of God's covenant with Israel. No land, no Israel, no light to the nations, thus no "Israel" for the Messiah to return to.

I have never seen so many confused individuals as I have here. I did not say that the Nation of Israel was not Israel or Israelites. I did say that they are the Jews, the Nation of Judah. What I present will not make any difference to you because of your own mind set. You mind is set in not believing that the United States is heading down a path of destruction because we are breaking the LAWS of God. The Laws that Jesus Christ Him self wrote with His fingers and gave to Moses. The only law that was done away was "the sacrificing of animals". Jesus Christ is our sacrifice. I guess you find it OK to kill, steal, Commit adultery, bear false witness and oh yes break Gods Sabbath law. The only difference is now, we have Gods Holy spirit in helping us keep those Laws. They did not have that in the days of old and had to sacrifice animals for that atonement. That is what was nailed to the cross.

Leodrex:

[Guest shiloh357]

I have never seen so many confused individuals as I have here. I did not say that the Nation of Israel was not Israel or Israelites. I did say that they are the Jews, the Nation of Judah. What I present will not make any difference to you because of your own mind set. You mind is set in not believing that the United States is heading down a path of destruction because we are breaking the LAWS of God. The Laws that Jesus Christ Him self wrote with His fingers and gave to Moses. The only law that was done away was "the sacrificing of animals". Jesus Christ is our sacrifice. I guess you find it OK to kill, steal, Commit adultery, bear false witness and oh yes break Gods Sabbath law. The only difference is now, we have Gods Holy spirit in helping us keep those Laws. They did not have that in the days of old and had to sacrifice animals for that atonement. That is what was nailed to the cross.

Leodrex:

We simply rejected your views on the United States being Ehparim and England being Manassah. It is part of the Identity cult and is simply a lot of history revisionism. Not a word of it is true.

[Smalcald]

Also you need to see what the LCMS is already doing. It is true this area has been ignored by many congregations but not all, and we do not totally subscribe to what is referred to as replacement theology.

http://www.lije.org/speaking.htm

Do you know what the LCMS's stance is on Replacement Theology? I cannot find anything online. I see your link is to an outreach of some sort. But it doesn't say anything specifically about RT. Or maybe I'm missing something.

It is not really addressed in doctrinal statements. There is great movement to really look at some of these issues, we have Jewish believers within the LCMS and we have specific ministries and churches with that in mind who fully reject replacement theology fully recognizing that the Jews are the apple of God's eye, like the one I linked to; which does NOT take away from the universality of the grace of Christ or His love for every single human beings. But Jesus Himself has said that salvation is through the Jews, of course this is self evident in that Christ was while on earth a Jewish male as all of his disciples and early followers. God chose the Jewish nation to bring us salvation and to bring the world salvation.

For me I just try to keep it simple. God's calculus is not human thinking. Being chosen by God does not make one "better", it is just a fact.

But I belong to the LCMS also and agree with thier teachings and this is why I belong but I don't see anything written here (with some minor exceptions) that would be a big problem for me.

[Smalcald]

But leo all nations are headed for destruction.

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a]

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

[~Shalhevet~]

It is not really addressed in doctrinal statements. There is great movement to really look at some of these issues, we have Jewish believers within the LCMS and we have specific ministries and churches with that in mind who fully reject replacement theology fully recognizing that the Jews are the apple of God's eye, like the one I linked to; which does NOT take away from the universality of the grace of Christ or His love for every single human beings. But Jesus Himself has said that salvation is through the Jews, of course this is self evident in that Christ was while on earth a Jewish male as all of his disciples and early followers. God chose the Jewish nation to bring us salvation and to bring the world salvation.

For me I just try to keep it simple. God's calculus is not human thinking. Being chosen by God does not make one "better", it is just a fact.

But I belong to the LCMS also and agree with thier teachings and this is why I belong but I don't see anything written here (with some minor exceptions) that would be a big problem for me.

Thanks.

[Guest yod]

It is not really addressed in doctrinal statements. There is great movement to really look at some of these issues, we have Jewish believers within the LCMS and we have specific ministries and churches with that in mind who fully reject replacement theology fully recognizing that the Jews are the apple of God's eye, like the one I linked to; which does NOT take away from the universality of the grace of Christ or His love for every single human beings. But Jesus Himself has said that salvation is through the Jews, of course this is self evident in that Christ was while on earth a Jewish male as all of his disciples and early followers. God chose the Jewish nation to bring us salvation and to bring the world salvation.

For me I just try to keep it simple. God's calculus is not human thinking. Being chosen by God does not make one "better", it is just a fact.

But I belong to the LCMS also and agree with thier teachings and this is why I belong but I don't see anything written here (with some minor exceptions) that would be a big problem for me.

Thanks.

All who are sealed by the Holy Spirit are "chosen" in a very real sense. We have been chosen for salvation since the foundation of time. But after salvation, then what?

We each have a unique calling and "choseness" in the Lord. I believe we are chosen to magnify the Lord and establish His Kingdom of righteousness through every large and small deed in our lives. When we work against what He is doing in Israel and the jewish people, we are working against the Kingdom of God...kicking against the goads like Saul on the road to Damascus was ignorant of the One he thought he was serving with zeal as he persecuted the saints.

Israel was chosen to be a light to the nations because of the Patriarchs; Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob(Israel)

It has been a heavy burden of responsibility to carry the Law to a world that rebels against all authority. It has been a heavy burden of responsibility to carry the Truth to a world that wants truth to be relative for each individual. It has been a heavy burden of responsibility to carry the Light to a world that prefers living in darkness of humanist philosophy.

It has been a heavy burden of responsibility to bring the Messiah to a world where man is the center of all knowledge, and therefore judging what Messiah should be.

And where He comes from is a problem for them.

[Guest yod]

I have never seen so many confused individuals as I have here.

You should consider the possibility that it is your viewpoint which has skewed the view of your surroundings.

We are well aware of the 2-House junk theology and it won't fly around here.