Sleep in Jesus.

[OneLight]

Anyone dare take a stab at Matthew 27:50-53?

My "stab" would be:

Gen 35:18 And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Gen 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem),

Straight to heaven I believe....

LOL ... let me remind you of the scripture Fez ...

Matthew 27:50-53 (New King James Version)

And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

What is the "holy city" and who are "the many"?

You know, I never really gave it much thought until you came along and confused me I always sort of glossed over it (wrong of me I know), but now I have an image of a bunch of resurrected believers walking around Jerusalem after the tearing of the veil That must have caused consternation - but the bible just leaves it at that, so.... I don't really know.

LOL ... I was looking for others to join me! Yes, this is usually glossed over and never discussed.

[Massorite]

Anyone dare take a stab at Matthew 27:50-53?

Honestly, I feel that this was a quickening of some of the contemporary saints that had recently died, not unlike the quickening of Lazarus.

They did not have cameras and photographs, so I wouldn't expect them to have been able to recognize the prophets or the patriarchs.

Plus we have Hebrews -

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Therefore I personally believe that none have yet been resurrected with a glorified body.

That is correct Blindseeker and there is no definitive scripture to support the idea that all have already gone to heaven.

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise." While Paradise is not heaven, it is clear that the thief was not unconscious or in soul-sleep.

I have a friend whose father saw heaven on his deathbed in the hospital. He was 1/2 hour from death and he said that he could see heaven in the East. Within just a few minutes, of death, he said, "I am in two places at once." He claimed to be in heaven. Those were his last words.

Don Piper, who wrote "90 Minutes in Heaven" tells of his experience in heaven after being killed by large truck on a bridge.

There are credible witnesses either who have passed on or who have passed on and have come back to tell about it.

[Massorite]

Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise." While Paradise is not heaven, it is clear that the thief was not unconscious or in soul-sleep.

I have a friend whose father saw heaven on his deathbed in the hospital. He was 1/2 hour from death and he said that he could see heaven in the East. Within just a few minutes, of death, he said, "I am in two places at once." He claimed to be in heaven. Those were his last words.

Don Piper, who wrote "90 Minutes in Heaven" tells of his experience in heaven after being killed by large truck on a bridge.

There are credible witnesses either who have passed on or who have passed on and have come back to tell about it.

OK so how do we know which it was since no one alive has ever seen Heaven or the Bosom of Abraham. We know what we think heaven is supposed to look like but we really have know idea. So how could we ever know for sure even if we were 30 minutes from death. Most people talk about a white light and maybe seeing Jesus with open arms but what happened to the throne of God or God himself or what about the glassy sea or the angels or the elders, cherubs etc. How come nobody ever talks about seeing those things? Could it be that those who do come back or talk about what they have seen are telling us in reality about the Bosom of Abraham/Paradise? We have no idea what that looks like either. There shouldn't be any question about where Paradise is because Paul tells us that Jesus first descended before he ascended which means that Jesus went down first. Right?

We also know that Lazarus was carried away by the angels but the rich man went straight to a place of torment without the help of angels.

And yes this is "just" a story but when Jesus says "The Kingdom of Heaven is like" I would say that we can take the story at face value because of the words "The Kingdom of Heaven is like" Even though Jesus doesn't say that about the story of Lazarus I believe that the Lazarus of the story is the same Lazarus who died and was brought back to life by Jesus.

[Guest shiloh357]

OK so how do we know which it was since no one alive has ever seen Heaven or the Bosom of Abraham.

Don Piper saw heaven and wrote a book about it.

We know what we think heaven is supposed to look like but we really have know idea.

That is what Piper said. Piper said that many things he saw he could not describe to us because we don't have a point of reference for them on earth. He mentioned colors and sounds that we do not have.

So how could we ever know for sure even if we were 30 minutes from death.

I think you would know if you genuinely saw heaven. It seems to be one of those things that you sort of have to experience first hand.

Most people talk about a white light and maybe seeing Jesus with open arms but what happened to the throne of God or God himself or what about the glassy sea or the angels or the elders, cherubs etc. How come nobody ever talks about seeing those things?

If they did, people would accuse them of just rehearsing what they already knew from the Bible. That is what makes Piper's recollection more convincing. He doesn't say those things were not there, but he was only there for a short time. The fact that he didn't just regurgitate what was already in the Bible lends to the story being more credible. He is not trying to "WOW" us for sensationalist purposes.

Could it be that those who do come back or talk about what they have seen are telling us in reality about the Bosom of Abraham/Paradise?

I doubt it, but even if that is true, it shows that we don't just sleep until the resurrection.

I believe that the Lazarus of the story is the same Lazarus who died and was brought back to life by Jesus.

No, that is not true. The Lazarus that Jesus brought back from the dead was not a beggar. He was a homeowner and lived with two able-bodied sisters. Since he was a homeowner, it stands to reason that he had a job. So no, they are not the same person.

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise." While Paradise is not heaven, it is clear that the thief was not unconscious or in soul-sleep.

I have a friend whose father saw heaven on his deathbed in the hospital. He was 1/2 hour from death and he said that he could see heaven in the East. Within just a few minutes, of death, he said, "I am in two places at once." He claimed to be in heaven. Those were his last words.

Don Piper, who wrote "90 Minutes in Heaven" tells of his experience in heaven after being killed by large truck on a bridge.

There are credible witnesses either who have passed on or who have passed on and have come back to tell about it.

Shiloh,

The original scriptures used no punctuation.So no commas.Is it possible Jesus was telling the thief he would be in heaven and using "today" as an emphasis.Like i can say to you today,Jesus will return.I believe the paradise mentioned here is heaven by the way.The thief asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom.This kingdom is heaven+earth? (new).

Not only is it not rendered that way in any English translation, the NT has been translated into other languages, and the sense has been retained there as well. So you would have to explain why the body scholarship is wrong on that point. Your argument is an attempt to read something into the text that is not there.

I do not believe any earthly man/woman has seen heaven yet.Living or dead.

Paul saw it.

[BlindSeeker]

Oh no . . . not Don Piper . . .

[Guest shiloh357]

Oh no . . . not Don Piper . . .

I find his claims to be credible...

[BlindSeeker]

Lu 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,

neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

If this is what Jesus said . . . it just makes me wonder.

Plus, Don Piper never made into heaven . . . or saw Jesus . . . seems he was left outside the pearly gates . . .

here's a book review though I found interesting.

[BlindSeeker]

Oh no . . . not Don Piper . . .

I find his claims to be credible...

Well . . . he was a Baptist. Is there any weight there?