baptism

[humbleseeker]

Thanks for the good comments everyone, I have been meditating and pondering it and have decided I am not going back to this bible study anymore. I just miss Christian interaction that I use to have. I am going to tell my friends tomorrow when we meet up to help out at the soup kitchen some of the remarks you guys made. My friend Len is very smart and a school teacher he knows the bible and use to attend the methodist church that I frequent, he and his wife have just been going through some hard times I suppose its easy to fall into wierd doctrine when were in a lower state of mind. Any way I dont care if they get mad or not I am going to tell them I think the church is wacked.

[OneLight]

Thanks for the good comments everyone, I have been meditating and pondering it and have decided I am not going back to this bible study anymore. I just miss Christian interaction that I use to have. I am going to tell my friends tomorrow when we meet up to help out at the soup kitchen some of the remarks you guys made. My friend Len is very smart and a school teacher he knows the bible and use to attend the methodist church that I frequent, he and his wife have just been going through some hard times I suppose its easy to fall into wierd doctrine when were in a lower state of mind. Any way I dont care if they get mad or not I am going to tell them I think the church is wacked.

There is no one perfect church, and there won't be until Jesus returns. In any church we will find doctrine that we don't agree with. To avoid a church because of one doctrine may be wise, then again, it depends on what that doctrine is. If it is a salvation issue, like what you are dealing with, then I agree. If it is not, like the timing of His return, it is not such a big deal, unless they are really out in left field and are telling people to sell all they have because He will return by a certain date.

I am with you on finding a body that there are only minor differences.

[exrockstar]

I totally disagread and felt like an outcast but I had to speak up on this matter. I believe that salvation comes when we accept Jesus, then we must be baptized as a sign of new life in Christ.

So I was wondering what people here think?

a "sign" to who?

[evetsegap]

Grace to you,

I would ask the folks how the thief on the Cross had time to get down, get Baptized, walk an old lady across the street, and attend Church prior to entering into Paradise with Jesus in a short period of time.

peace,

Dave

The thief on the cross died under the old covenant. No person who died prior to the beginning of the New Covenant (after the resurrection) was told to be Baptized.

"Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. "

If you read this in context you see that Paul was speaking about Judaizers who were trying to convince Christians they need to be circumcised. When Paul used the word "works", he was referring to obeying the Law of Moses. In the next verse Paul wrote "10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." We are raised with Christ to obey Him, show the fruit of the Spirit and bear our own fruit. If a person does not bear fruit they will not be saved.

Matthew 3:8-10

[evetsegap]

I was about to say the same. The Bible says believe on the name of Jesus and you will be saved. That simple. No hocus pocus.. just a sincere desire and calling out.

Now, since it's similar question. I want to ask something..

Matthew 3:11

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

What fire is he talking about? I speculate, that it might be two things..

1. Fire of trials in Life or,

2. An actual fire in Heaven...

might be something else but what kind of baptism of fire is this??

First off we must look at all of scripture to see the entire salvation picture.

Luke 7:50

Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Ephesians 2:8-9

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

[humbleseeker]

While I agree Steve that baptism is a command and should be done after accepting Christ, I believe that salvation itself happens with faith, and baptism as an act of dying and being raised to new life. I can not believe that if one comes to Christ in a fox hole and dies before he is baptized he will be sent to hell. I however do believe we must be baptized since it is a command, also going out and making diciples of men is a command also. We start to realy get into a works toward salvation if you think of that one. We are saved by faith not baptism.

[evetsegap]

While I agree Steve that baptism is a command and should be done after accepting Christ, I believe that salvation itself happens with faith, and baptism as an act of dying and being raised to new life. I can not believe that if one comes to Christ in a fox hole and dies before he is baptized he will be sent to hell. I however do believe we must be baptized since it is a command, also going out and making diciples of men is a command also. We start to realy get into a works toward salvation if you think of that one. We are saved by faith not baptism.

I agree with everything that you say. Our God is just and righteous. If a person has no opportunity to obey a command of Jesus then He will be just won't he? I have faith that God knows who does and does not want to obey Him.

It is our faith that saves us. But saving faith must be defined mustn't it? And that is why Hebrews 11 was written, it gives us examples of our fore fathers in the faith and it it show that each had deeds that demonstrated their faith. If Rahab had not thrown a scarlet ribbon out of her window, she and her family would have not been saved. If Noah did not build an ark, he and his family would not have been saved. If Israel had not sprinkled blood, as they were instructed to, they would not have been saved from the destroyer. These are examples of people living by faith.

We Christians love to say "saved by faith", I fear there will be many people who go to hell because they did not have Godly, scriptural faith. We need to be more responsible and teach what real Biblical faith is.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

The thief on the cross died under the old covenant. No person who died prior to the beginning of the New Covenant (after the resurrection) was told to be Baptized.

There is no difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testamentnor the God of the new Covenant and the God of the Old.

Heb

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

By the by, when was Abraham Baptised?

Ro

[evetsegap]

Grace to you,

The thief on the cross died under the old covenant. No person who died prior to the beginning of the New Covenant (after the resurrection) was told to be Baptized.

There is no difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testamentnor the God of the new Covenant and the God of the Old.

Heb