Who is my "brother" in Christ?

[OneLight]

And again, my reply is ...

Who is our brothers, sisters and mothers?

Matthew 12:50

For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.

Mark 3:35

For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.

Anyone who has done the will of God as set forth in scripture is our brother, sister and mother, no matter what church they attend.

[~Shalhevet~]

And again, my reply is ...

Who is our brothers, sisters and mothers?

Matthew 12:50

For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.

Mark 3:35

For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.

Anyone who has done the will of God as set forth in scripture is our brother, sister and mother, no matter what church they attend.

[Guest shiloh357]

But I ask, why should one call another brother when he cannot agree with the other's teaching regarding how one is "saved"? Is it possible that one is right and the other is not if their teachings do not jive? If I feel that one is not saved until they have been obedient in baptism and cannot stay saved unless they continue in the faith, and another on this board feels that all you have to do is believe and you are forever saved, am I to just sit here and avoid the question?

No, you should not avoid the question at all. It is obvious that you have a view of salvation that is based on performance and not on the grace of God. The notion that one must be baptized in order to be saved is also accompanied by the notion that one must be baptized within the theological framework that one is being baptized to be saved; ergo, those who are baptized in other denominations (Baptists, Pentacostals, other evangelical denoms) who do not see baptism as necessary for salvation, have not received valid baptisms and are therefore, not saved

Many accuse those of us who teach that there is more required than belief to entering the family of God as being works oriented, thereby nullifying faith. I would say this is a complete misunderstanding.

No, it is not a misunderstanding.

I would say that the Scripture teaches that many will believe, but many will not enter into heaven.

Please provide ONE example of a person who accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, but went to hell anyway.

If I teach one who has believed and has been baptized that they must remain faithful to the Lord to be saved is that any different than teaching that one who hears must believe and one who believes must repent? Confess? and be Baptized(immersed)?

Yes it is different. I believe that baptism is necessary. I do not believe it is necessary salvation. I believe in the necessity of faith, works, repentance, baptism, etc. I simply reject the reasons for why YOU say they are necessary.

Teaching one what they "must do to be saved" depends on where they are. It is much like telling someone how to get to St Louis...it depends on where you are when you ask.

That is not biblical. There is only one way to be saved, and that is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus alone, is the Way, The Truth and The Life.

So, if you teach faith only salvation and God's election and I don't agree, should I call you brother?

Salvation = Jesus + 0. If you are trusting anything or anyone else for salvation, if you are trusting in your works to secure your salvation, then you are not a Christian.

So to answer your question, you should not call us your brethren, as you do not belong to Christ.

[eis]

So, just because I propose the question....

To OneLight - I see your quotes, but you fail to define what the "will of my Father" means. Is it being obedient to His Word? If so which parts do we choose to be obedient and which parts do we ignore? Can we ignore any one thing that is God's will and be His brother?

To shiloh357 - Actually, I DO believe that we are saved by grace not of works. The Scripture says so. The question we have no agreement on he is how do we attain that saving grace? You apparently feel that grace is independent of one's response to the gospel. I agree that there is no "work" that one may do that will result in salvation. Maybe that's where you misunderstand baptism. One who is baptized is not doing the work. He is being buried in the watery grave of baptism and puts on Christ. Now, I know no other Scripture than that found in Romans 6 and Gal 3 that tells how we become "into Christ". I contend that our death burial and resurrection in baptism is necessary because we arise from baptism a new living creature that has put on Christ. The way you put it being saved first requires one who is alive to be buried.

And, you know as well as I do, this side of heaven we do not know who the saved will be. We can only study the Word and follow it. So, no I can't tell you of someone who accepted Christ and then went to hell later on. I am not even sure where that fits. You know demons believe and shudder, but they apparently are not saved.

Hey, you know what? I really do want it to be faith only. I just can't reconcile that with the totality of the New Testament.

[Guest shiloh357]

To shiloh357 - Actually, I DO believe that we are saved by grace not of works. The Scripture says so. The question we have no agreement on he is how do we attain that saving grace? You apparently feel that grace is independent of one's response to the gospel.

No, I believe that grace is necessarily tied to one

[eis]

No, I believe that grace is necessarily tied to one

[eis]

Luke 13:3-5

3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4 "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

NASB

How about repenting? Since we are under grace can we throw that one out too?

[Guest Butero]

In a separate thread I managed to experience the ire of some on this board because I was bold enough to state a dividing line between what I read in the Scripture vs what some teach regarding salvation. To wit I was called a pinhead, judgmental and probably some other things. An Admin closed the topic, probably the best thing to do since it was heated.

But I ask, why should one call another brother when he cannot agree with the other's teaching regarding how one is "saved"? Is it possible that one is right and the other is not if their teachings do not jive? If I feel that one is not saved until they have been obedient in baptism and cannot stay saved unless they continue in the faith, and another on this board feels that all you have to do is believe and you are forever saved, am I to just sit here and avoid the question?

Many accuse those of us who teach that there is more required than belief to entering the family of God as being works oriented, thereby nullifying faith. I would say this is a complete misunderstanding. I would say that the Scripture teaches that many will believe, but many will not enter into heaven. If I teach one who has believed and has been baptized that they must remain faithful to the Lord to be saved is that any different than teaching that one who hears must believe and one who believes must repent? Confess? and be Baptized(immersed)? Teaching one what they "must do to be saved" depends on where they are. It is much like telling someone how to get to St Louis...it depends on where you are when you ask.

So, if you teach faith only salvation and God's election and I don't agree, should I call you brother?

It appears you have come across the unconditional eternal security crowd? It is in violation of the TOS to call other members names like pinhead, so if that happened, it shouldn't have. I don't believe that water baptism plays any role in salvation, but it is something we should do in obedience to God. I do not hold to the doctrine of unconditional eternal security. If someone gets saved and then goes back into sin, they do not remain saved, at least, that is my opinion.

WB is made up of members from many differen't denominational backgrounds, and we don't fully agree on anything. We won't ever be able to understand other Christians or learn anything new if we attack those who don't agree on doctrinal matters. As long as we believe the Bible is God's Word, we have a foundation or a starting point. I am sorry you were attacked like that.

[Axxman]

Actually the Lord said it:

Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

NASB

Hello eis...welcome to Worthy!

Did you ever notice how in Matthew 7:22 that the "many" who will be turned away are all basing their salvation and knowledge of Christ in their works? Baptism (among other things) could easily fit in that scripture.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Mar 23 2010, 12:03 PM)

No, I believe that grace is necessarily tied to one