What good has come from Atheism?

[UndecidedFrog]

So it's quite hurtful to see someone, who apparently don't know any atheists, dragging these human beings in the mud.

Yes Jeunet, I agree. It is quite irrational and hurtful. However, you must try to understand it from their perspective.

They think they believe the truth, and therefore the nonbelievers must be seen as evil for 2 reasons:

1) Their beliefs claim that whosoever that is not a servant of the Lord is de facto, a servant of satan.

2) It makes them feel more validated in their beliefs if they can demonize the non-believers.

Regards,

UF

[Jeunet]

1) Their beliefs claim that whosoever that is not a servant of the Lord is de facto, a servant of satan.

I have an uncle who's a Jehovah Witness and his religion pretty much sees it this way: either you're a JW, or else you're FOR SURE acting in the name of Satan. That is such an extreme view. And I know this is not shared by many Christians. Many of them (most I know at least) perfectly acknowledge that a non-Christian can be good persons, and being Christians doesn't necessarily makes you a good one.

@ MorningGlory: I just realize that you're from Texas, I guess that would explain why there's not a lot of atheist around you (at least not comfortable saying they are). I never been to Texas, although I really want to make a road trip there in the near future (probably driving from Albuquerque all the way to Houston (NASA!)). It's one of the last part of US I haven't seen yet that I want to see. Although I'm not too tolerant of heat, so I might have to do it in fall or spring

Edited September 20, 2011 by Jeunet

[Don Fanucci]

Don Fanucci (are you from Naples?, BTW ),

Little Italy, in NY. I live next to the Corleones.

it would be silly to say atheist = good person, as much as saying theist = good person. There is good and bad on both sides.

I think that the relationship between social health and atheism/agnosticism is an indirect one. Probably, it is due to higher level of education. That does not mean that all educated people are atheists, but the bias is undeniable.

If a society is rich and wise enough to guarantee higher levels of education for all its people, then it is obvious that most of these people will not become criminals.

If this were true, Boston would be the safest place on the planet.

If children receive serious sexual education before puberty, then it is obvious that we should expect lless unwanted pregnancies, less abortions and less STDs.

I am pretty sure I wouldn't need to go far to find this either not true, or actually the reverse. Very simple: more sex=more abortions, more STDs, more pregancies. If you provide how-to information, do you think you'll get more or less sex? San Francisco is one of the most afluent cities in the US, highly educated population, yet in spite of knowing that AIDS is a death sentence, had one of the highest per captia rates in the country.

However, I also believe that long exposure to history, astronomy, cosmology, physics, neurosciences, biology and evolution does not favor Christian belief. Fundamentalistic Christians are right when they say that all this is detrimental to Christian belief. At least, it is clearly detrimental to YEC, Bible literacy, Adam and Eve, etc. And once you lose faith in the literacy of the Bible, what is the difference between this Book and Homer's Odysee, apart from our historically Christian cultural bias and the religious environment we have grown into?

I don't think the majority of Christians in the US are YEC. These folks are responsible for the bumkinized reputation of Christians, true, but are a small part of the bible belt. Look up any denomination demographic in the US and you'll see that evangelicals make up a small fraction. Nobody pays attention to YEC besides other YEC, and they generally get beaten back on every front so while people may like to stereotype Christians as all YEC, in reality, that is not true.

Of course there are still many Christians who accept evolution, but this is because Christianity was here (in Europe) before. I stronly doubt that Paul would have written what he wrote if he had been an expert in molecular biology.

Actually its most accept evolution.

For instance, I am a big fan of prof. Miller, but I find him very puzzling. How can anybody be so convinced about our origin via evolutionary processes and the effectiveness of science and at the same time, as a Roman Catholic, believe that during the Eucharist he is LITERALLY eating the body of Jesus (easily disprovable scientifically) or that Jesus was born from a virgin (problem with father-side chromosomes)? I fear Christian evolutionary scientists have not thought too much about the inescapable theological (teleology, theodicy, birth or evolution of the immortal soul, Jesus as representant of an intermediate species, etc.) consequences of evolution via natural selection.

I don't recall the exact quote, but George Will said something to the effect that it is hard to believe that the universe first created, then became, conscious of itself, by chance.

[Jeunet]

If children receive serious sexual education before puberty, then it is obvious that we should expect lless unwanted pregnancies, less abortions and less STDs.

Actually sex will happen. No matter what. Regardless if it's a more liberal or more conservative place, more religious or more atheistic. Regardless of culture or geography. Once people reach puberty, sex will happen, or is incredibly likely to happen.

So either you teach people to do it safely, or you pointlessly try to fight against nature. There's a reason why atheistic families have less teen pregnancies, and why the most religious a place, the more likely for teen pregnancy. Because sex happen, and sadly the kids from religious background often time are not properly taught how to protect themselves.

[UndecidedFrog]

1) Their beliefs claim that whosoever that is not a servant of the Lord is de facto, a servant of satan.

I have an uncle who's a Jehovah Witness and his religion pretty much sees it this way: either you're a JW, or else you're FOR SURE acting in the name of Satan. That is such an extreme view. And I know this is not shared by many Christians. Many of them (most I know at least) perfectly acknowledge that a non-Christian can be good persons, and being Christians doesn't necessarily makes you a good one.

Actually, you are mistaken. From what I have gathered from these forums, the worthy brand of christianity views all good deeds as nothing more than filthy rags, and they believe their god considers only true believers can produce good *fruit*.

Regards,

UF

Edited September 20, 2011 by UndecidedFrog

[OldShep]

So it's quite hurtful to see someone, who apparently don't know any atheists, dragging these human beings in the mud.

Yes Jeunet, I agree. It is quite irrational and hurtful. However, you must try to understand it from their perspective.

They think they believe the truth, and therefore the nonbelievers must be seen as evil for 2 reasons:

1) Their beliefs claim that whosoever that is not a servant of the Lord is de facto, a servant of satan.

2) It makes them feel more validated in their beliefs if they can demonize the non-believers.

Regards,

UF

Actually, you are mistaken. From what I have gathered from these forums, the worthy brand of christianity views all good deeds as nothing more than filthy rags, and they believe their god considers only true believers can produce good *fruit*.

FYI. ...Jeunet

Not all Christians fit into the term "Their", "Them" and "They" or any other words that encompasses a whole group of people in one little term.

I choose to see all Humans as God's Children, unless the individual exposes himself or herself as something different, by word of mouth, or by their ongoing works of evil. For most part; those people in the World that have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, I still view as a child of God, who at the moment is not under His Salvation, but very well could become a brother or sister in Christ, if they choose to believe in Jesus.

Mar 9:38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

Mar 9:39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me,

Mar 9:40 for whoever is not against us is for us.

Mar 9:41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

Nonbelievers, can and have done good works in this world, lots of good works.

May the Grace of God be with you Jeunet and UF.

Dennis

[Jeunet]

Not all Christians fit into the term "Their", "Them" and "They" or any other words that encompasses a whole group of people in one little term.

Oh I completely agree with that. Most Christians I know in my life are really great people. A good chunk of my family are practicing Christians (Catholics to be more specific) and I love them to death, they are so great

Edited September 20, 2011 by Jeunet

[UndecidedFrog]

Not all Christians fit into the term "Their", "Them" and "They" or any other words that encompasses a whole group of people in one little term.

I choose to see all Humans as God's Children, unless the individual exposes himself or herself as something different, by word of mouth, or by their ongoing works of evil. For most part; those people in the World that have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, I still view as a child of God, who at the moment is not under His Salvation, but very well could become a brother or sister in Christ, if they choose to believe in Jesus.

May the Grace of God be with you Jeunet and UF.

Hi Dennis,

To clarify and set things straight, can you please tell Jeunet and me if you agree with the following statements?

1) If one is not a servant of the Lord, one is a servant of satan.

2) Good deeds are like filthy rags, and only true believers can produce good fruit.

Regards,

UF

[OldShep]

Not all Christians fit into the term "Their", "Them" and "They" or any other words that encompasses a whole group of people in one little term.

I choose to see all Humans as God's Children, unless the individual exposes himself or herself as something different, by word of mouth, or by their ongoing works of evil. For most part; those people in the World that have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, I still view as a child of God, who at the moment is not under His Salvation, but very well could become a brother or sister in Christ, if they choose to believe in Jesus.

May the Grace of God be with you Jeunet and UF.

Hi Dennis,

To clarify and set things straight, can you please tell Jeunet and me if you agree with the following statements?

1) If one is not a servant of the Lord, one is a servant of satan.

2) Good deeds are like filthy rags, and only true believers can produce good fruit.

Regards,

UF

tag, I will get back to you after I build a cover for my AC unit.I did not finish, have to let things dry, I'm building an insulted box for the winter.

In regards to question #1, short answer is NO! I do not agree.

My reason for not agreeing is this: I question the unknown assignment of people into pigeon holes that man has come up with. I know not if a person is or is not a servant of Christ or of Satan unless the person as confessed such service by voice or by their works. Which in my case is interchangeable with the major uses of the word "fruit" which is often found in the Bible.

I view people like I have said in another post, all people are Children of God and until each individual is given the Word of God and the idea that just being a good person will not get them into Heaven, then I see them as just not being under Salvation that comes through Jesus Christ.

The spirit with me deals only with me, not a group of other people, I alone am accountable for my choices in life and my acceptance of Jesus Christ as my Savior. I made that choice after hearing the Good News of Jesus. Before that, I served no other God, nor angle that I am aware of. I merely lived my life as a Child of God, without knowing Gods tender Mercies and Grace that were offered to me through Jesus.

In regards to question #2, again the short answer is NO! I do not agree.

My reason for not agreeing I will have to bring back to me, for a hate picking on others. As a child before knowing Jesus as my Lord and Savior I reflected the desires and the concerns for other people in this world from my Parents. However, MY desire to Help people was not based upon receiving some kind of reward for helping, but, was done out on my idea that helping was the right and good thing to do.

As a good man does and will do good works, but, his works do not make him a good man; for he is so before he performs good works, or he would never be able to do them. We are Children of God, as we are also the offspring of Adam and being so, we also have the ability and the tendency to sin, and at a time slaves to sin, even thou I do good works. Just because I sin, does not rob the goodness out of the things I did before knowing Christ Jesus, however, those works mean nothing, for it is not by works that My eternal soul is saved. I could perform good works my whole life and still fall short of being able to enter through the narrow gate into Heaven. For it is by Grace that I have been saved through Faith, and this was not of my self, it {Faith}and {Grace} was a gift of God. Not by works, least I should boast how I was able to get into Heaven.

General Statement by me. I see most of these all inclusive statements or group inclusive statements or questions, as being fathered by Satan through pride or based in Hate, to cause separation between God's children and those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior.

God does not hand out Group Tickets to get into Heaven or Group Tickets to Hell, each individual on earth will at some point in time be given the Choice of who to believe in and who to serve. We are advised to be aware of who is telling us what and to check out what they tell us against His Word , with the Guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is but one source for a true all inclusive statement, that source is God.

Rom 3:19-26 NIV Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. (20) Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. (21) But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. (22) This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, (23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. (25) God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— (26) he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Rom 5:18 NIV Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

I wish that all would come to Know Jesus, yet, my heart knows this will not be the case, and that causes me to weep.

ICL Dennis.

[MorningGlory]

1) Their beliefs claim that whosoever that is not a servant of the Lord is de facto, a servant of satan.

I have an uncle who's a Jehovah Witness and his religion pretty much sees it this way: either you're a JW, or else you're FOR SURE acting in the name of Satan. That is such an extreme view. And I know this is not shared by many Christians. Many of them (most I know at least) perfectly acknowledge that a non-Christian can be good persons, and being Christians doesn't necessarily makes you a good one.

Actually, you are mistaken. From what I have gathered from these forums, the worthy brand of christianity views all good deeds as nothing more than filthy rags, and they believe their god considers only true believers can produce good *fruit*.

Regards,

UF

You, U.F., are a liar.