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Predestination?

Guest MICHAEL2267

By Guest MICHAEL2267
in Theology

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EricH

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Posted

That people are unconditionally free cannot be demonstrated Biblically. In fact the opposite is stated. Jesus said that people will know the truth, and the truth will make them free. This implies that a person without the truth is not free and is conditioned by that lack of truth. Since the logical condition thaty required Open Theist to adjust their view of God does not exist in reality (unconditional human freedom), even the logical wrestlings that created Open Theism fall apart.

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HitmanR2

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God's Choice?

Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad

BlindSeeker

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God's Choice?

Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad

billiejean

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Posted

The Hebrew for "serve" used there in Genesis 25:23 is 'abad.

http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=05647

It can also be translated submit, subject, be subject, subjugate, transgress, or even honor.

HitmanR2

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When did Esau ever serve his younger brother Jacob?

Isaac answered Esau, "I have made him lord over you and have made all his relatives his servants, and I have sustained him with grain and new wine. So what can I possibly do for you, my son?" Genesis 27:37 NIV

:noidea:

BlindSeeker

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When did Esau ever serve his younger brother Jacob?

Isaac answered Esau, "I have made him lord over you and have made all his relatives his servants, and I have sustained him with grain and new wine. So what can I possibly do for you, my son?" Genesis 27:37 NIV

:101:

OK . . . now back to the question . . . . when did Esau ever serve his younger brother Jacob?

Why are Jacob's last recorded words to Esau the following-

Gen 33:14 Let my
lord
[Esau]
, I pray thee, pass over before
his servant
[Jacob]
: and I will lead on softly, according as the cattle that goeth before me and the children be able to endure, until I come unto my lord unto Seir.

HitmanR2

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Posted

The prophecy of verse 23: The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger."Genesis 25:23NIV is completely fulfilled with the descendants of Edom (Esau) and God's prophecy concerning them. READ EZEKIEL 35. Which culminated in Obadiah 1: 21 Deliverers will go up from Mount Zion to govern the mountains of Esau. And the kingdom will be the LORD's.NIV

Zion being Israel, being Jacob. His descendants would go to rule over the mountains of Edom (Esau). If someone exercises rule (dominion) over you, you are their servant.

I hope this helps.

What is the purpose of this question? :)

.

HitmanR2

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Posted

Sorry, but to continue, after looking at more commentaries on the subject, this passage has spiritual overtones as well.

But I would prefer not to carry the conversation any farther off topic.

. :)

BlindSeeker

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The prophecy of verse 23: The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger."Genesis 25:23NIV is completely fulfilled with the descendants of Edom (Esau) and God's prophecy concerning them. READ EZEKIEL 35. Which culminated in Obadiah 1: 21 Deliverers will go up from Mount Zion to govern the mountains of Esau. And the kingdom will be the LORD's.NIV

Zion being Israel, being Jacob. His descendants would go to rule over the mountains of Edom (Esau). If someone exercises rule (dominion) over you, you are their servant.

I hope this helps.

What is the purpose of this question? :whistling:

.

The purpose was to show the verses did not apply to the eternal fate of individuals with God.

Hawkins

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Posted (edited)
If God knows all the past, future, and present, God wants us to be where we are. He knew the end before the beginning. He knows who will fail him and who will not. While he may grant free will, the outcomes have already been decided. It's a perplexing process that I need help in understanding if anyone knows about this.

There could still be a gap between "He knows" and "the outcomes decided". For example, if I know that tomorrow will be a rainy day, it doesn't mean that tomorrow is decided by me. Instead I just happen to know that tomorrow will be raining.

Moreover, the results are for humans to witness. He can't just say on the day you were born that "You are guilty of sinning because I know" :emot-pray: You need to live your life and only after that He will judge you.

Still in a nutshell, we as humans don't understand fully what pre-destination is.

Edited by Hawkins
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