Sabbath or Sunday ?

[Guest]

.... Anyone who brings in new leadership....

Ah!

Arthur

Jesus Is LORD

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:10-12

Both In The Old Testament

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Psalms 40:7

And The New Testament Jesus Is Found

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Hebrews 10:7

>>>>>()<<<<<

Dear Arthur

Perhaps You Know The LORD God Redeemer Of The "Old" Testament Is The Same LORD God Redeemer Of The "New" Testament

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Isaiah 54:5

Or You May Have Heard That Any Man Throughout The Bible Who Saw God Saw The LORD Jesus

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 6:46

And That Elder Brother Moses Spoke To The LORD Face To Face

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

Deuteronomy 34:10

And The LORD Wrote Down Exactly The Words Intended

And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Exodus 34:1

And It Was The LORD Who Gave The Law

Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

Exodus 34:21

And The Sabbath Will Not Change

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:18

Nor Will It's LORD

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Matthew 12:8

>>>>>()<<<<<

As To The Question Of Salvation By Law Keeping And The Counting Of The Days Of The Week And New Moons And Such

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:19-20

Salvation Is Of The LORD

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:23-25

And So Is HIS Law

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 3:30-31

I Pray This Is Of Some Help Dear Arthur

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. John 14:27

[mizzdy]

Because there are those of the circumsion who would want us to go back to saturday worship and then many other non esentials.

Why does it also have to be about worship also I wonder. I don't ever remember reading the sabbath command and it saying and on this day you must go and gather yourselves together or else. We worship God everyday not just one day a week. No one in all my life has ever shown me biblical proof God threw away any of His laws. Christ just 'renewed' them writing those commands in our hearts so we can follow after Him in His perfect ways. God's laws are not grievous or hard when we have Him helping giving us the help we need to continuely fulfilling those laws through love and grace. David, Paul and the rest called God's laws perfect, good and a delight, why can't we?

[Guest yod]

Why does this topic always bring so much controversy?

Because there are those of the circumsion who would want us to go back to saturday worship and then many other non esentials.

At best that is a gross mischaracterization...

How many "of the circumcision" (jewish believers) do you actually know? I've been in the messianic movement for 20 years now and I could name only about 5 Jewish believers out of many several thousands who hold that position.

The problem is usually caused by gentiles who get enamored with hebrew roots teaching and think they've got a hidden knowledge. When their friends/families don't immediately embrace all the new things they begin proclaiming, they get frustrated and start calling everyone pagans.

It is true that the church has traditionally taught from a greek philosophical perspective instead of the hebraic perspective so when someone finds out what they've been missing in the church all their lives, it can result in a contempt for everything they've ever been taught by a church. These are the ones who become quite critical of how others choose to honor the Lord.

[mizzdy]

It is true that the church has traditionally taught from a greek philosophical perspective instead of the hebraic perspective so when someone finds out what they've been missing in the church all their lives, it can result in a contempt for everything they've ever been taught by a church. These are the ones who become quite critical of how others choose to honor the Lord.

I've known my share of people like this as if the truth has been bestowed on them alone. I myself lean towards the hebrew roots but don't consider myself as part of any movement. For me its more about learning just what it is God has been saying and teaching us. I found, as you said, some things were missing in what I was learning. But being critical happens on both sides of the aisle just as this very thread shows.

[kross]

Here in America, we tend to start our work week on Monday, making Sunday the seventh day. That's good enough for me.

Actually, in here in America, Sunday is the 1st day of the week. We do not count our week from Monday, but from Sunday.

I said we start our work week. I know the first day of work for me is Monday. My seventh day is Sunday. I do not rest one day, work 5, and then rest again. Plus, I call it the weekend, not the weekends. If it is the ends of two different weeks, I would call it the weekends. For me, I work 6 days and rest of the seventh, just as GOD did.

As I said, that is good enough for me.

[kross]

On which day did the Lord Jesus Christ rise from the dead?

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1)

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9)

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (Luke 24:1-3)

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. (John 20:1-2)

The first day of the week is Sunday. Christians worship on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of their Savior. Christ was in the tomb during the sabbath, and rose as the firstborn from the dead on the first day. (Matthew 28:1) The sabbath signifies the last day of the old creation (Genesis 2:2). Sunday is the first day of the new creation.

Sabbath means "rest"...Our "rest" is in the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, when we are "in Christ", we have "entered into His rest":

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Hebrews 4:1-4)

The Lord Jesus Christ is my rest/Sabbath.

Amen!

I would add John 20:19 where the disciples are gathered on the first day and JESUS blesses them by showing up in their midst. I would worship every first day knowing that JESUS will show up.

[Wrench]

Have you noticed that out of ALL the 10 Commandments, that one uses the most words, the most description, etc? And, aside from the actual day we worship on, and that teaching that we always address as far as not needing to honor that 4th Commandment, what do we do about the REST OF THE TEACHINGS within that particular Commandment???? Ummm? Letting your animals and your workers rest? How are they resting in the Sabbath because of YOUR Salvation???? What do you do with the rest of the teachings? Just ignore it, I guess?

Any answers for that part?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Since the Holy Spirit indwells us and we have the mind of Christ and his laws are written on our hearts.........

It's only right for us to honor a day of rest for our workers and animals. Most times now days we get 2 days off a week. Some don't like those of us in the Oil Industry (when it was booming anyway)

But as followers of Christ we should automaticaly think and treat our workers fairly. It's a judgement call on everyones part.

Now, since the usual worship day is sunday and a worker wants to worship then they shouldn't be kept from it.

In my opinion this falls under the category of "Love your neighbor"

[anitarose]

Ah, but does anyone really know where worshipping G-d on Sunday came from?

Blame the Emperor Constantine.

When he became a believer, he was still heavily steeped in paganism, and worship of the sun god Sun-Ra. These pagans worshipped Sun-Ra on his day---Sun-day. So, Constantine, when he supposedly became a believer, instituted pagan worship in with the worship of his "L-rd"---therefore changing dates and changing the Sabbath.

Y'shua never ever did away with the Torah.

a.

[Wrench]

Ah, but does anyone really know where worshipping G-d on Sunday came from?

Blame the Emperor Constantine.

When he became a believer, he was still heavily steeped in paganism, and worship of the sun god Sun-Ra. These pagans worshipped Sun-Ra on his day---Sun-day. So, Constantine, when he supposedly became a believer, instituted pagan worship in with the worship of his "L-rd"---therefore changing dates and changing the Sabbath.

Y'shua never ever did away with the Torah.

a.

You're correct on both parts.

As far as Constantine instituting the Sunday "sabbath" to me doesn't matter if it was originaly a pagan day or not. The Lord created all days and is lord of all. If you want to rest on Sunday as a sabbath no problem. It's honoring the Lord on a day that he created even if it is the first day of the week.

I compare this to the rainbow. If you put a rainbow sticker on your car are you supporting homosexuality? Or are you proclaiming the promise of the Lord?

Jesus never did away with the torah, He fullfilled it.

"The law which was contrary to us was taken away."

Why do you feel that a Sabbath is mandatory? (or do you?) If so, what about the rest of the Torah?

[JCISGD]

Ah, but does anyone really know where worshipping G-d on Sunday came from?

Blame the Emperor Constantine.

When he became a believer, he was still heavily steeped in paganism, and worship of the sun god Sun-Ra. These pagans worshipped Sun-Ra on his day---Sun-day. So, Constantine, when he supposedly became a believer, instituted pagan worship in with the worship of his "L-rd"---therefore changing dates and changing the Sabbath.

Y'shua never ever did away with the Torah.

a.

This is a common misconception often spread by SDA`s, but it is the LORD of the Sabbath who changed the day Acts 20:7.

Sabbath does not mean Saturday, it means a seventh part and also describes the practice of lying land dormant every seven years and the redistribution of property every 50 yr 7 X 7 = 49.

The Sabbath (seventh day) was to glorify Jesus` work of creation, but the LORDs day (first day of the week) is to glorify Jesus` infinatley greater work of redemption and salvation.

Isaiah says God will roll this world and its heavens up like a scroll and toss it away,and create a new heavens and earth, but the work of salvation will never pass away.