A Moral Debate: Why Capitalism is Best for America

[billiejean]

A departure from complete financial liberty?

[nebula]

I guess I'm not understanding you. Andy.

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Job was wealthy.

Abraham was wealthy.

Boaz was wealthy.

King David was wealthy.

Joseph of Arimathia was wealthy.

Lydia was wealthy.

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Is some government money going into welfare, and such really departing from financial liberty?

And is the government welfare program really operating efficiently?

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What a lot of us are seeing going on is "the welfare of the needy" being used as a smoke-screen for government control. That is, it really isn't the poor and needy they are concerned about so much as the government control.

[~candice~]

I guess I'm not understanding you. Andy.

Job was wealthy.

Abraham was wealthy.

Boaz was wealthy.

King David was wealthy.

Joseph of Arimathia was wealthy.

Lydia was wealthy.

Absolutely nothing wrong with being wealthy. That is ag's argument, not mine.

Is some government money going into welfare, and such really departing from financial liberty?

Yes, it is a departure from pure capitalism. Taxation, especially taxation for welfare, is a departure from complete financial liberty.

And is the government welfare program really operating efficiently?

No! It is pitiful!

What a lot of us are seeing going on is "the welfare of the needy" being used as a smoke-screen for government control. That is, it really isn't the poor and needy they are concerned about so much as the government control.

Agreed, the current government is using this as a form of control, is not giving only to the genuinely needy, runs the program inefficiently and is not transparent.

Neb - back to my question - do you know a single person who is actually advocating PURE capitalism for America?

[nebula]

Neb - back to my question - do you know a single person who is actually advocating PURE capitalism for America?

What is "pure" Capitalism?

[Guest shiloh357]

4.A capitalist system promotes excess wealth creation and tempts man to greed.A mans greed is not static and can be influenced by excess.

Wanting to be wealthy is not greed. The Bible does not condemn anyone for being wealthy. The Bible condemns those who put their wealth ahead of God.

And what exactly constitutes "excess?" How much money is too much money?? Who has the right to determine for everyone else what "excess" is?

Excess wealth

Luk 12:16-23 LITV

(16) And He spoke a parable to them, saying, A certain rich man produced well from the land.

(17) And he reasoned within himself, saying, What may I do, for I have nowhere I may gather my fruits?

(18) And he said, I will do this; I will tear down my barns and I will build larger; and I will gather there all my produce and my goods.

(19) And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take rest, eat, drink, and be glad.

(20) But God said to him, Fool! This night they demand your soul from you; and that which you prepared, to whom will it be?

(21) So is he treasuring up for himself, and not being rich toward God.

(22) And He said to His disciples, Because of this I say to you, Do not be anxious as to your life, what you should eat; nor as to the body, what you should put on.

(23) The life is more than the food and the body than the clothing.

Could we compare this to collecting money?

That is not an example of excess wealth. The man was not condemned beacause he was too wealthy, but because his wealth had become his god. Instead of recognizing God has the source of his prosperity, he attributed his success to himself alone. He never became rich toward God.

[Guest shiloh357]

4.A capitalist system promotes excess wealth creation and tempts man to greed.A mans greed is not static and can be influenced by excess.

For lack of a better way to explain my thoughts -

How is your reasoning different from Islamic nations that force women to wear burkas to prevent tempting men from lust?

I have no problem with women covering their bodies as Muslims do and most Muslim women do it willingly I hear.

There are many people who would accept standard income too so that the needy could benefit.Not capitalists of course.

The only people who would accept a standard income are those without motivation or drive; leveling the playing field so that all have the same kills innovation and creativity, not to mention the dream of rising above mediocrity. Why work and excel when you already know what your lot in life will be?

Charity expects no return.If we labour for the common good of our society we should not feel deprived.After all putting our neighbour ahead of ourselves is good right?

This "dream of rising above mediocrity" seems very egotistical and selfish.

Our lot in life is not to pursue wealth.

Selfishness is when you want it all for yourself. If you are successful at your job and you become wealthy by it, or if you start a business and you prosper by it, why is that wrong?? As long as you got the money in an honest manner there is no ego or selfishness involved.

When people work hard and are rewarded for it, it inspires them and others to achieve better and that is good for everyone. If every one was willing to live on your level, we would still be living in in the 8th century.

[MorningGlory]

4.A capitalist system promotes excess wealth creation and tempts man to greed.A mans greed is not static and can be influenced by excess.

For lack of a better way to explain my thoughts -

How is your reasoning different from Islamic nations that force women to wear burkas to prevent tempting men from lust?

I have no problem with women covering their bodies as Muslims do and most Muslim women do it willingly I hear.

There are many people who would accept standard income too so that the needy could benefit.Not capitalists of course.

The only people who would accept a standard income are those without motivation or drive; leveling the playing field so that all have the same kills innovation and creativity, not to mention the dream of rising above mediocrity. Why work and excel when you already know what your lot in life will be?

Charity expects no return.If we labour for the common good of our society we should not feel deprived.After all putting our neighbour ahead of ourselves is good right?

This "dream of rising above mediocrity" seems very egotistical and selfish.

Our lot in life is not to pursue wealth.

I think you're talking apples to my oranges. God doesn't forbid us working to achieve goals and a comfortable life for our family. Nor does He tell us we should give a portion to the lazy and unmotivated. We are told to share with those in need and I believe that's what we should do. Christian charity, however, is not a government run program.

[Guest shiloh357]

Ta Shiloh for your words.I do not totally disagree with you.People that know me will tell you I am not an ambitious person but I work hard and enjoy my labour.My lack of ambition to "better" myself seems to be a blessing to me.God made me this way.I do not begrudge anyone being successful but where I live wealth is synonymous with greed.

Apologies if I seemed to infer all Americans are greedy.

God did not "make" you that way. It is a choice you have made for yourself. Fair enough. You are free to live that way if you choose. The problem is that you used the Bible to assert that wealth = greed. Regardless of where you live, it simply isn't true.

Some of the most charitable people in the world are wealthy. I would also point out that it is wealthy people who create the jobs for everyone else. Penalizing someone for being wealthy is nothing more than biting the hand that feeds you.

[Guest shiloh357]

Ta Shiloh for your words.I do not totally disagree with you.People that know me will tell you I am not an ambitious person but I work hard and enjoy my labour.My lack of ambition to "better" myself seems to be a blessing to me.God made me this way.I do not begrudge anyone being successful but where I live wealth is synonymous with greed.

Apologies if I seemed to infer all Americans are greedy.

God did not "make" you that way. It is a choice you have made for yourself. Fair enough. You are free to live that way if you choose. The problem is that you used the Bible to assert that wealth = greed. Regardless of where you live, it simply isn't true.

Some of the most charitable people in the world are wealthy. I would also point out that it is wealthy people who create the jobs for everyone else. Penalizing someone for being wealthy is nothing more than biting the hand that feeds you.

Oky doky Shiloh.

Blessings

I don't penalise a person from being wealthy.I penalise a person for being wealthy+greedy.

And you have no idea how God made me .

Actually, based on your previous posts you DO penalize people for being wealthy because according to you, "wealth is synonomous with greed." So you assume wealthy person is greedy, unless you have just changed your mind.

Oh and for your information. I don't have to know how God made you because I know Him, and He does not create anyone with a pre-determined set of beliefs particularly when those beliefs don't line up with Scripture. You just need to be honest about the fact that you choose to believe as you do.

[Guest shiloh357]

Ta Shiloh for your words.I do not totally disagree with you.People that know me will tell you I am not an ambitious person but I work hard and enjoy my labour.My lack of ambition to "better" myself seems to be a blessing to me.God made me this way.I do not begrudge anyone being successful but where I live wealth is synonymous with greed.

Apologies if I seemed to infer all Americans are greedy.

God did not "make" you that way. It is a choice you have made for yourself. Fair enough. You are free to live that way if you choose. The problem is that you used the Bible to assert that wealth = greed. Regardless of where you live, it simply isn't true.

Some of the most charitable people in the world are wealthy. I would also point out that it is wealthy people who create the jobs for everyone else. Penalizing someone for being wealthy is nothing more than biting the hand that feeds you.

Oky doky Shiloh.

Blessings

I don't penalise a person from being wealthy.I penalise a person for being wealthy+greedy.

And you have no idea how God made me .

Actually, based on your previous posts you DO penalize people for being wealthy because according to you, "wealth is synonomous with greed." So you assume wealthy person is greedy, unless you have just changed your mind.

Oh and for your information. I don't have to know how God made you because I know Him, and He does not create anyone with a pre-determined set of beliefs particularly when those beliefs don't line up with Scripture. You just need to be honest about the fact that you choose to believe as you do.

Just showing you the courtesy of reading your words.

btw.."wealth being synonymous with greed" was referring to the Gold Coast here I live.

Have you been here?

I apologise in advance for not reading your next words.But let her rip buddy.

cya

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