Does the EArth Really Move?

[Sojc]

It's amazing that some people here can still believe theories such as the sun revolves around the earth (whose scientific basis is credited from Greek philosophers centuries before Jesus), yet some people cannot believe that the current US government is not what it portrays itself as.

[nebula]

OK . . .

I am seriously beginning to wonder where this thread is going. . . .

Anyway, I did an internet search on Kepler and Mars' moons, and I found this ( Source ).

. . . In July of 1610 Galileo was still making discoveries faster than he

could publish descriptions of them.  On the 25th he discovered that

Saturn was apparently situated between two smaller companions that

always moved together.  Wanting to establish his priority of discovery,

but not yet ready to reveal what he had found, he sent to Kepler (and

others) the following jumble of letters, which he informed them was

a coded description of his latest discovery:

          smaismrmilmepoetaleumibunenugttauiras

It was not uncommon in those days for scientists to communicate (or

rather, to avoid communicating) their discoveries by means of coded

expressions.  Kepler, of course, was a born riddle solver, and made

strenuous efforts to decipher Galileo's string of characters.  It's

fair to say that Kepler had an unusual aptitude for seeing patterns,

to the extent that he sometimes saw patterns that weren't even there

(as witness his perception that the planets were arranged in accord

with the dimensions of circumscribed Platonic solids).  A good example

is that when he learned of Jupiter's four moons, andcompared this with

the Earth's one Moon, he concluded that Mars must have two moons (by

the geometrical progression 1,2,4...).  This suggestions seems to

have been taken up by other people, including Voltaire and the English

author Jonathan Swift, whose Gulliver's Travels (written in 1726)

contains the remarkable description of the astronomical prowess of

the fictional Laputan astronomers:

  They have made a Catalogue of ten Thousand fixed Stars, whereas

  the largest of ours do not contain above one third Part of that

  Number.  They have likewise discovered two lesser Stars, or

  Satellites, which revolve about Mars; whereof the innermost is

  distant from the Center of the primary planet exactly three of

  his diameters, and the outermost five; and the former revolves

  in the space of ten hours, and the latter in twenty-one and an

  half, so that the squares of their periodical times are very near

  in the same proportion with the cubes of their distances from

  the center of Mars; which evidently shews them to be governed

  by the same Law of Gravitation that influences the other

  heavenly bodies.

Of course, it wasn't until 1877, using a telescope hundreds of times

more powerful than Galileo's, that Aseph Hall discovered the two

small moons of Mars.  The inner one he named Phobos (Fear) and the

outer Deimos (Terror), after the horses that drew the chariot of Mars

in mythology.  The distances of these from the center of Mars are

2.743 and 6.891 times the radius of Mars, respectively, and the

periods of revolution about Mars are 7 hr, 39 min, and 30 hr, 17

minutes.  The orbital periods are roughly similar to those guessed

by Swift, but the radii were too big by about a factor of two.  As

a result, the mass of Mars that one would infer from Swift's data

is about (3.86)10^24 kg, which is roughly 64% of the EARTH's mass,

whereas the actual mass of Mars is only (6.43)10^23 kg, which is

almost exactly 1/6 the mass "predicted" by Swift's Laputans.

Incidentally, Swift was obviously familiar with Kepler's third law,

so he knew the orbital periods T and radii R needed to give the same

value of R^3/T^2.  To give the results in round numbers he needed

to solve the diophantine equation (at least approximately)

                R1^3 T2^2  =  R2^3 T1^2

Since 21.5 is 43/2, his solution reduces to the fact that (5^3)(20^2)

= 50000 is nearly equal to (3^3)(43^2) = 49923.

Returning to Kepler and his struggle with the mysterious coded message,

it so happens that after a great deal of effort he actually succeeded

in making sense out of Galileo's jumbled string of character:

          Salve umbistineum geminatum Martia proles.

which means "Be greeted, double knob, children of Mars."  In other

words, Kepler deduced that Galileo had in fact discovered two moons

of Mars, exactly as he (Kepler) had inferred from the geometric

series!  Unfortunately Kepler's deciphering result differs by one

character from those in Galileo's string, but surely he had uncovered

the substance of Galileo's discovery - or so Kepler imagined.  It's

truely fascinating that Kepler somehow managed to interpret this

message to signify precisely the discovery (or premonition of a

discovery) that he himself had made!

Of course, Galileo's message actually had nothng to do with Mars. When

he finally revealed its meaning (reportedly because he learned that

His Majesty the Emperor wished to learn it), the message turned out

to be

          Altissimum planetam tergeminum observavi.

which means "I have observed the highest of the planets [saturn]

three-formed".  We have no record of Kepler's reaction when he learned

the true interpretation.  As to Saturn's peculiar shape, Galileo

was chagrined to see the feature disappear over the next few years,

although it subsequently reappeared.  Christain Huygens (and his

brother) built some very powerful telescopes, and used one of them

to finally give an accurate description of the rings that surround

Saturn.  Since these rings are not aligned precisely with the ecliptic

they periodically become almost invisible from Earth, because we are

viewing them "edge on". . . .

I guess we can all take this as we will, I guess.

And what again does any of this have to do with geocentrism?

[BobTriez]

OK . . .

I am seriously beginning to wonder where this thread is going. . . .

Me too Neb....me thinks we're a victum of a post & run Haven't see the OP back in 2 days now

Oh well.....

[whatsitmean]

I did a search on 'swift mars'.

It came back with this:

Gulliver's Travels author Jonathan Swift referred to Mars' two moons in his most famous book, written in 1726. Amazingly, the two moons were not discovered until 1877 and fitted exactly with the patterns of orbit described by Swift - so either it was just a lucky coincidence, or Swift was a Martian. Or he knew of famous physicist Kepler's blind assumption that, because Venus has no moons and Earth has one, Mars must have two. And even more stupidly (given the excellence of hindsight) he thought Kepler must be right.

13 THINGS YOU GENUINELY NEVER KNEW ABOUT..... MARS

And more to the point:

The Mars-Earth Wars

I'm sorry to say it is not an article but a book. Chapter 9 talks about Kepler. Chapter 12 talks about Swift's scenerio.

The gist of the book is that at one time Earth's and Mars' orbits brought the planets much closer together than they are today. The near flybys often had catastrophic effects on Earth which is why ancient people were quite affraid of the planet and gave it attributes of the god of war. 701 bc was the last of these flybys and the effect was to change Earth's orbit from 360 days to 365.

The source of Swift's facts was not Kepler, but ancient eye witness records of the planets moons according to this theory.

[nebula]

Please tell me you don't believe this! :LOL:

[whatsitmean]

So far, I don't have any basis from which to refute it, therefore it seems plausible to me.

It does offer explainations of events in Joshua 10 and 2Ki 20:11 and Isa 38:8 as well other mysteries like the one we have been discussing and the sudden change in calendars world wide that took place right in the time frame.

The fact that it isn't taught in public schools doesn't bother me in the least. As far as science and history goes, they could throw just about everything right out the window.

You do look at some things with an open mind don't you?

[Guest sallystrothers]

in our modernized society of instant information we as a generation have lost our ancestor's simplitude and patience.... look up in the sky for a really long time... months... theres a thing called retrograde motion....

describing retrograde motion under a geocentric palette is further fetched then abandoning a geocentric universe all together.

[nebula]

Open mind? Yeah - when they actually make sense.

The thing with science, it doesn't work by, "Can't disproven the theory, therefore it must be true."

It works by, "The evidence supports the hypothesis that this is so."

Big difference.

And evidence is based on observation of the natural realm, not by writings from people who didn't speak modern science lingo.

Tell you what, whatsitmean - how about we take this debate to the www.badastronomy.com bulletin board?

************************

Retrogade motion?

Oy - do I have to dig up why that is all wrong?

[RustyAngeL]

6 hours ago, simplejeff said:

How old is TRUTH ? Scripture ? Has the TRUTH changed ? ((no))

Did you prefer watching the shenanigans today in worldly threads ?

 

jeff I"m not even going to stoop to an answer to this comment you made to me.  This is an insult to a fellow believer and sister and  is beyond contempt.

[LadyKay]

22 minutes ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

Oh I'm wrong, I most sincerely apologize. I did finally find a photo of your wall of ice. Please disregard what I've said to this point.

That's "Game of Thorns"!  The Night Watch guard it  LOL