Who is the He in Daniel 9:27?

[Jasher]

Daniel 9:27

And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week HE shall cause the sacrifce and oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations HE shal make it desolate, even until the comsummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So I was just wondering how everyone views the HE in Daniel 9:27. Please feel free to give opinion, but if possible it would be great if you give scripture to back up your view. I was just curious because I think I'm in the minority in my view of the He given in Daniel 9:27. As from what I hear most Christians say the He is the antichrist, and I just don't see this from this verse.

In case your wondering, yes I think the HE is Jesus Christ.

Close but not exactly.

NIV Daniel 9:27

27 He [God] will confirm a covenant [Abrahamic] with many for one seven (Daniel's 70th week). In the middle of the seven he [God] will put an end to sacrifice and offering [the sacrifice of Jesus - once and for all]. And on a wing of the temple [Chamber of Hewn stones - Sanhedrin] he [God] will set up an abomination [the unjust condemnation of Jesus] that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed [death by crucifixion] is poured out on him [Jesus - his suffering and death].

Comments:

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven.

Confirmation of the already existing covenant of Abraham and the OT fathers. Confirm, to make strong.

In the middle of the seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

God did this in making the final once and for all sacrifice so that animals no longer had to be sacrificed.

And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

This makes a lot of sense to me because a �wing� of the temple was a structure on the Temple compound. It relates to a building. May I suggest to you that this wing of the temple was the place where the Sanhedrin met, which was called the chamber of hewn stones and was located in the "Holy Place" of the Temple on the North side of the structure. This "chamber of hewn stones" was destroyed at the time of the crucifixion - that very same day because there was a severe earth quake the day Jesus died. The Sanhedrin had to move to other quarters when this happened. The chamber of Hewn Stone was built half in and half out of the Temple Holy Place - thus it was a wing of the Temple.

What greater abomination could there be than for the Sanhedrin - sitting in their "wing" of the Temple - to condemn the Lord of the universe to death just for the sake of ENVY. This was the ultimate abomination of the Jewish nation and it, along with other Abominations, caused the complete desolation of the Temple of God, the city and Nation itself - all that remained of the Jewish nation in 73AD was the Fortress of Antonia, which was the garrison of the Roman legion. The Fortress Antonia is today errantly called the "Temple Mount."

In 70AD the Temple had been totally destroyed down to the foundations at bedrock. Remember Josephus said the pinnacle of the Temple had a 450 foot high wall - the real Temple Mount was actually a very high Tower. Another 150 feet of wall was under the earth and went down to bedrock. So in places (south east corner or pinnacle of the temple where the devil took Jesus) the total wall height at this point was about 600 feet high. The real Temple Mount tower was totally destroyed in 70AD so that not one stone was left upon another. One historical reason for this was that the temple contained probably hundreds of tons of silver and gold. The walls of the Heichel room (including the Holy of Holies) was covered with gold plate as well as all of the doors. When the Temple was burned all of this Gold and Silver melted and flowed down through the crevasses in the huge stones making up the wall of the tower. All of the stones were displaced in search of the gold. Some of the rooms around the Heichel were used as a repository for people's wealth. It was stored there for safekeeping as the only alternative that people had was to bury their treasures in the ground somewhere.

I think the cross is the greatest event in the history of the universe.

Larry

Why is it that you think that the covenant is Abraham's and not the New Covenant? Messiah confirmed the New Covenant in His blood at the final Seder. Wouldn't that be the covenant He confirms?

To confirm a covenant means that the covenant was already in existance with a significant interval in between the origin and the confirmation. This long interval is the reason that it has to be confirmed. (Abraham to Christ) The New Covenant was created by the blood of Jesus. How do you confirm a covenant that was freshly made in the middle of Daniel's 70th week?

Luke 22:20 (NASB)

And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

Again I say the New Covenant was not cut until the crucifixion.

The only reference in the OT to the "New Covenant" is a prophesy from Jeremiah. A prophesy is not he same as a covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31 (KJV)

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a "new covenant" with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The Roman army was the abomination that literally caused the desolation of the Temple, but the Sanhedrin certainly had its part in that matter. Jesus told them even before it happened that their house (the temple) was left to them desolate. There was no stopping it. The matter was decreed. Daniel said that the punishment decreed would be poured out upon the desolator and it certainly was if the Sanhedrin was the desolator. The rest of the information you provide is very enlightening and historically accurate.

Daniel prophesied events that would happen 500 years into his future ending in 70AD. In that long period of time he uses the term Abomination that causes Desolation three times. Each was about a different event. Chronogically the first mention of AoD was in reference to the war with Antiochus when he desecrated the Temple - around 164 BC. The second mention of the AoD was the one I wrote about above. What greater AoD could there be than to unjustly murder the Creater of the universe in 29AD? The third mention of the AoD was fulfilled when Eleazar ben Simon the terrorist in 66AD took over the temple and also desecrated it. He was the man of sin that Paul prophesied about. He took over the Temple and used it as a bloody fortress against the armies of Agrippa II and a few weeks later the army of Cestius who had led the 12th legion to Jerusalem to put down the rebellion. These were the two events that Jesus told his followers to watch out for and when they appeared they should flee the city and Judea.

It is commonly stated that it was the armies of Rome that was the AoD when they finally broke into the Temple in 70AD. Not so. First of all the forces of Titus did not enter the burned out Temple until very late in the war of 70AD. The Temple was just an unusable burned out shell at the time. The Abomination comes first followed by the Desolation. If the Romans were the abomination then it has to be reversed as they only arrived after the desolation. It doesn't work. Jesus told his followers to get out of Judea and the city when they saw the AoD. In 70 AD. When the Romans broke through the walls it was way too late for the Christians to try to escape. The war was at its end at that point. No the Christians fled when the terrorists took over the Temple and the armies surrounded the city in 66 AD.

Also the fortress of Antonia was right next door to the Temple in Jesus day. This was never seen as an abomination. So it wasn't the Romans that was the AoD.

[JohnD]

Now, my friend, this "he" is the son of perdition who will purport to be the promised messiah and the Jews who reject Jesus as Messiah will accept this counterfeit as the genuine article. He will affirm the Old Covenant rebuild the temple and the Levitical sacrificial system will again be in place until the middle of the 70th week of Daniel, 1290 days from the end of human history:

Daniel 12:11-12 (NASB95)

11 “From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

12 “How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!

Verse 11 is counting back from the end. Verse 12 is counting forward from the beginning of the 70th Week of Daniel.

Hi John, regarding your chart, the 1290 days and 1335 days, both are tied to the setting up of the AOD, in Daniel 12.

Where you have the 1290 days counting back (arrow to the left), I think you should have had as the 1335 days. That would give the day on the 7 years timeline of when the AOD will be setup to be worshiped (day 1185). You have the AOD setup to be worshiped on the first day of the 7years.

From the day on the timeline which the AOD is setup to be worshiped (day 1185), place the 1290 days arrow to the right. Which on that day (day 2475), the heavens will part and the world will see Jesus before the throne of God, sickle in hand.

The Rapture takes place on an unknown day. So we cannot put arrows pointing to it.

Doug

Um, what date is given?

We cannot know the day or the hour but we are commanded to know the season. And we will not even know when the SWD (Seventieth Week of Daniel) began until the sacrifices are abated in the middle of the SWD.

The beast will affirm the Mosaic Covenant with the leading rabbis. Making himself out to be the messiah. Christianity will be outlawed. 666 will be a means of tracking down these one people on earth who will not take this mark. The first 3.5 years will be the tribulation period of the believer, the AOD will be in power (set up) from at least that time frame on. It's when the Great Tribulation occurs (last 3.5 years of the SWDl) that his kingdom shatters. Christians who survive to the mid point of the SWD will be so far underground in hiding they will already be mistaken by all else as having been annihilated. Their sudden disappearance will go unnoticed by most.

[joi]

Tonight I was wondering about 9:27, and began looking for information, and found this;

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/2010/12/daniel-927-antecedent-he-messiah-the-prince-or-the-prince-that-shall-come/

[Montana Marv]

Tonight I was wondering about 9:27, and began looking for information, and found this;

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/2010/12/daniel-927-antecedent-he-messiah-the-prince-or-the-prince-that-shall-come/

A very good article.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, joi.

Tonight I was wondering about 9:27, and began looking for information, and found this;

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/2010/12/daniel-927-antecedent-he-messiah-the-prince-or-the-prince-that-shall-come/

Montana Marv is correct; it IS a very good article. HOWEVER, despite all of his well-thought-out arguments, he is not correct on several points.

First, he is just plain wrong about the "the prince that shall come" being the "nearest antecedent" of the pronouns "he" in verse 27. In the English translations, "the prince that shall come" is part of a prepositional phrase, namely "of the prince that shall come," "of" being the preposition. A prepositional phrase itself can have a part to play in the fundamental sentence being reviewed. A prepositional phrase can act as an adjectival phrase describing a noun or a pronoun; or, it can be an adverbial phrase describing a verb, an adjective, or another adverb.

Here's a little excerpt from ChompChomp.com:

Remember that a prepositional phrase will never contain the subject of a sentence.

Sometimes a noun within the prepositional phrase seems the logical subject of a verb. Don't fall for that trick! You will never find a subject in a prepositional phrase. Look at this example:

Neither of these cookbooks contains the recipe for Manhattan-style squid eyeball stew.

Cookbooks do indeed contain recipes. In this sentence, however, cookbooks is part of the prepositional phrase of these cookbooks. Neither—whatever a neither is—is the subject for the verb contains.

One should understand that, in English grammar, one must think of the fundamental sentence as the ground floor of a building: Embedded phrases and clauses introduce higher floors in the building. The objects on a particular level of the building may intermix, but not objects on separate floors! Thus, in the example above, the phrase "of these cookbooks" is on the second floor. The phrase "for Manhattan-style squid eyeball stew" is another prepositional phrase describing a separate, second floor, but the ground floor contains only the words, "Neither contains the recipe." So, in the example, when one is looking for the fundamental sentence's subject, one will not find it on a second floor! Therefore, the subject must be the word "Neither." The words within the subordinate prepositional phrase, or a subordinate clause or phrase of any kind, cannot contain parts of speech intended as fundamental to the sentence!

An antecedent MUST be on the same floor as the pronoun to which it gives meaning. They can be within separate sentences as long as they are both on the same ground floor, because a simple conjuction can put them within the same sentence; however, one cannot be on the second floor of one sentence while the other in on the ground floor in a second sentence and be connected!

a

b c

Let's say that "b" and "c" are separate sentences, and that "a" is a prepositional phrase of sentence "b." If the object of the preposition is in "a," then a pronoun in "c" cannot refer to that object! It can only refer to an object within "b" or "c." Understand? The phrase "a" and sentence "c" are not on the same level!

Therefore, when we have two sentences, such as ...

Dan. 9:26-27

26 And (after threescore and two weeks) shall Messiah be cut off, but not (for himself): and the people (of the prince that shall come) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week....

KJV

and switching the noun and the verb parts around to how we usually communicate in subject-verb form:

Dan. 9:26-27

26 And Messiah shall be cut off (after threescore and two weeks), but not (for himself): and the people (of the prince that shall come) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week....

KJV

we can more readily see that "the prince that shall come" is on the second floor of "the people shall destroy the city and the sanctuary," which is the sentence's ground floor. Thus, the pronoun "he," also on the ground floor of a subsequent sentence, CANNOT refer to "the prince that shall come!" To find the pronoun's antecedent, we must go farther back to the beginning of verse 26 and see "Messiah," which is also on the ground floor!

The actual Hebrew has a similar rule that governs to whom the third-person, masculine, singular verb of verse 27, translated as "he shall confirm," could refer. It is called a "noun construct state:" In Hebrew (transliterated), two nouns stuck together are translated as if the English word "of" is between them: "ben Avraham" = "son OF Abraham." The first noun is in the construct state and always implies the "of" following it. The nouns following it are its possessive and descriptive functions! Only the first noun can be used as the subject of the sentence!

Thus, the construct state in question is "`am naagiyd habaa'," which directly translates to "a-people-of a-prince the-comer." Thus, "prince" CANNOT be the subject of any verbs in that sentence, and since almost all sentences are begun with the vav translated as "and-," subsequent sentences are also on that same ground floor! In order for the "prince" to become a subject of a sentence, it must be repeated on the ground floor, i.e., the first noun after the verb! Thus, the verb of verse 27 must go back to "Maashiyach" in verse 26 to find the masculine, singular noun to which it is related.

That's enough for now. Ponder on this much, first.

[Montana Marv]

My take is that all the Seventy Sevens are decreed for Israel and Jerusalem to do the six tasks. This is the Prophecy.

This issuing of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the Anointed One being cut off are just Markers for the beginning of the 70 weeks of years, and the Anointed One being cut off is the end of the 69th Week.

The "he" who confirms (makes strong or what ever) a covenant for a One Seven is the beginning of this Marker (the last One Seven or the 70th Week of Daniel). In the middle of the Week this same "he" sets up the A/D on a wing of the Temple, and the Week continues.

My only complaint about joi's article is about the Pope being the Man of Sin or the Beast of Rev 13. There are too many other religions who do not accept Catholic fundamentals. But, this beast of Rev 13 will come out of Rome being the ten toes of Daniels vision (Dan 2:40-43). It is very possible that the Pacey will fully back this individual.

Yes, this "he" is in our near future. This "he" will usher in the final One Seven (Week) of Daniel.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[joi]

Haven't finished reading your post Retrobyter, but I want to say I am not as interested in the English version as I am in it's original context.

I do appreciate your input, so don't be put off by what I said, because like others here, I want the truth of this matter.

I can read this either of two ways and am not satisfied with either of them, and am tired of struggling with the antecedent!

Carry on!

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, joi.

Haven't finished reading your post Retrobyter, but I want to say I am not as interested in the English version as I am in it's original context.

I do appreciate your input, so don't be put off by what I said, because like others here, I want the truth of this matter.

I can read this either of two ways and am not satisfied with either of them, and am tired of struggling with the antecedent!

Carry on!

Finish reading the post. I DO touch on the Hebrew, as well.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Montana Marv.

My take is that all the Seventy Sevens are decreed for Israel and Jerusalem to do the six tasks. This is the Prophecy.

This issuing of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the Anointed One being cut off are just Markers for the beginning of the 70 weeks of years, and the Anointed One being cut off is the end of the 69th Week.

The "he" who confirms (makes strong or what ever) a covenant for a One Seven is the beginning of this Marker (the last One Seven or the 70th Week of Daniel). In the middle of the Week this same "he" sets up the A/D on a wing of the Temple, and the Week continues.

My only complaint about joi's article is about the Pope being the Man of Sin or the Beast of Rev 13. There are too many other religions who do not accept Catholic fundamentals. But, this beast of Rev 13 will come out of Rome being the ten toes of Daniels vision (Dan 2:40-43). It is very possible that the Pacey will fully back this individual.

Yes, this "he" is in our near future. This "he" will usher in the final One Seven (Week) of Daniel.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Sorry, but the "six tasks," while directly affecting the Jews and Jerusalem, are NOT tasks that they CAN perform! They are tasks that must be performed FOR THEM by the Messiah!

[Montana Marv]

Shabbat shalom, Montana Marv.

My take is that all the Seventy Sevens are decreed for Israel and Jerusalem to do the six tasks. This is the Prophecy.

This issuing of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the Anointed One being cut off are just Markers for the beginning of the 70 weeks of years, and the Anointed One being cut off is the end of the 69th Week.

The "he" who confirms (makes strong or what ever) a covenant for a One Seven is the beginning of this Marker (the last One Seven or the 70th Week of Daniel). In the middle of the Week this same "he" sets up the A/D on a wing of the Temple, and the Week continues.

My only complaint about joi's article is about the Pope being the Man of Sin or the Beast of Rev 13. There are too many other religions who do not accept Catholic fundamentals. But, this beast of Rev 13 will come out of Rome being the ten toes of Daniels vision (Dan 2:40-43). It is very possible that the Pacey will fully back this individual.

Yes, this "he" is in our near future. This "he" will usher in the final One Seven (Week) of Daniel.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Sorry, but the "six tasks," while directly affecting the Jews and Jerusalem, are NOT tasks that they CAN perform! They are tasks that must be performed FOR THEM by the Messiah!

Roy

Sorry, this Prophecy states: Seventy sevens are decreed for your people (Israel) and your holy city (Jerusalem) TO: 1. Finish transgressions, 2. Put an end to Sin, 3. Atone for Wickedness, 4. Bring in Everlasting Righteousness, 5. Seal up Vision and Prophecy, 6. Anoint the most holy.

Unless you can find some other one or thing listed in this DECREE, I must stick with this Scripture. I can see only "your people" and "your holy city" in this Decree. Do you care to ADD to this Prophecy. This decree says that they WILL preform these six tasks. I can only go by what this Prophecy says/states. Either this Prophecy is 100 percent correct (Daniel is a true Prophet), or it is 100 percent wrong (Daniel is a false Prophet). Take your pick. If wrong, then we must rip Daniel out of the Bible.

In Christ

Montana Marv