Online "churching"

[mizzdy]

I would think that baptism is a hands on physical thing. As Otherone mentioned there are so many who cannot get out of their homes, those with many types of disabilities so an online congregation fits the bill pretty well. I personally join others around the world in a small congregation online, the teacher not only teaches to the physical congregation but to those online as well, theres a 'chat' room for those online to speak to one another and we are able to ask questions and get them answered. Some of us just don't have the option of getting out to a building.

So how do those who insist that baptism is required for salvation deal with this very issue?

I have no idea you would have to ask that of someone else.

Well, I must admit that I had the same thought as Parker,Mizz. I spent some time on thier site trying to find out. I wanted to know if they were really physically dunking people...... I'm not into sprinkling, but it sounded like they could be doing either. I don't think I want to write them and askthough

I really had no idea and didn't go to their website to search it out either. I have never known anyone who 'baptized' online and didn't feel compelled to find out. Truly I had the thoughts of someone standing at a pool, lake or even bathtub holding a lap top as the 'preacher' saying 'now I..' and the baptee (is that even a word?) and a few close friends praying in a crowed bathroom! But I think baptism can be anywhere as I think most here do also.

[Guest]

My own cousin who is a closet Christian back in my home country would benefit greatly from having an online church... Come to think of it..

I just want to clarify that my cousin's case is a bit peculiar. She became Christian while in high school and was kicked out of her parents home after a lot of persecution (not being given food to eat at home for instance). She then went off and married a member of her church because the pastor had received a revelation about it. The guy started his own church as a pastor and got his powers from voodoo rituals and operated signs and wonders but performed all kinds of strange sacrifices in front of the sea once a a year while beating her senseless. She ran away from him, was homeless, and her Muslim parents took her kids in. She then denied the Christian faith publicly, gave her Bible to my parents for them to destroy it. She now lives with her parents, who believe that Christianity is about voodoo and all kind of nonsense. She is traumatized. I managed to preach the Gospel to her on my last trip and she repented... but is still lost mentally and spiritually. She hides in the bathroom to pray. Scared of churches, of Christians, and of starvation and the streets. (sorry for the digression. Just had to clarify. )

Thank you for sharing this. No need for sorries...in fact, it is me that offers an apology to you. Please forgive me. I will remember with prayers your cousin and the difficulties in her life, and her relationship with God.

God bless you,

Randal

[Joshua-777]

While working on chapter 8 of my dissertation ( on the Internet and islamic knowledge), I found a book by a European professor, that talks about an actual online mega-church. Not a physical church that happens to have a web site. Rather, I almost spat out my --ahem-- Ginger ale, when I saw that it is an actual online church that offers worship, baptism by immersion from the computer screen, and even holy communion from the comfort of your home. This isthe church.

I find this pretty revolutionary, and I wonder if this is going to be a new trend in Christianity.

My own opinion of it is that if we forsake physical churches in favour of virtual ones, we are losing out on the full experience of walking with Christ which is about "loving your brother/sister", and our mission as disciples of Christ to live and walk in the world as a light to others and salt of the earth. Also I worry about the spread of false doctrines to people who are seeking...

I am very interested in all of your opinions on the matter.

Though the internet can be a major helpful tool, we are created with a need for fellowship in person. I think online ministry is a good thing, but You need fellowship around you also. I agree with you that if we forsake physical churches in favor of virtual ones, we lose the full experience of walking in love, and also can be dangerous.

The baptism online, ect I do not agree with. I don't believe that we can be baptized in pixels.

[other one]

While working on chapter 8 of my dissertation ( on the Internet and islamic knowledge), I found a book by a European professor, that talks about an actual online mega-church. Not a physical church that happens to have a web site. Rather, I almost spat out my --ahem-- Ginger ale, when I saw that it is an actual online church that offers worship, baptism by immersion from the computer screen, and even holy communion from the comfort of your home. This isthe church.

I find this pretty revolutionary, and I wonder if this is going to be a new trend in Christianity.

My own opinion of it is that if we forsake physical churches in favour of virtual ones, we are losing out on the full experience of walking with Christ which is about "loving your brother/sister", and our mission as disciples of Christ to live and walk in the world as a light to others and salt of the earth. Also I worry about the spread of false doctrines to people who are seeking...

I am very interested in all of your opinions on the matter.

Though the internet can be a major helpful tool, we are created with a need for fellowship in person. I think online ministry is a good thing, but You need fellowship around you also. I agree with you that if we forsake physical churches in favor of virtual ones, we lose the full experience of walking in love, and also can be dangerous.

The baptism online, ect I do not agree with. I don't believe that we can be baptized in pixels.

you should check thier web site for answers to that, it's really not baptizing in pixels as I understand it. Thre must even be two saved people to witness whatever they are doing. I didn't want to push it any fruther than that.

[Joshua-777]

Because Worship is online here at Alpha Church you need not sacrifice time with the Lord Jesus Christ for your other responsibilities of work, family, and organizational responsibilities.

....

[UncleAbee]

I would think that baptism is a hands on physical thing. As Otherone mentioned there are so many who cannot get out of their homes, those with many types of disabilities so an online congregation fits the bill pretty well. I personally join others around the world in a small congregation online, the teacher not only teaches to the physical congregation but to those online as well, theres a 'chat' room for those online to speak to one another and we are able to ask questions and get them answered. Some of us just don't have the option of getting out to a building.

So how do those who insist that baptism is required for salvation deal with this very issue?

I have no idea you would have to ask that of someone else.

Well, I must admit that I had the same thought as Parker,Mizz. I spent some time on thier site trying to find out. I wanted to know if they were really physically dunking people...... I'm not into sprinkling, but it sounded like they could be doing either. I don't think I want to write them and askthough

I really had no idea and didn't go to their website to search it out either. I have never known anyone who 'baptized' online and didn't feel compelled to find out. Truly I had the thoughts of someone standing at a pool, lake or even bathtub holding a lap top as the 'preacher' saying 'now I..' and the baptee (is that even a word?) and a few close friends praying in a crowed bathroom! But I think baptism can be anywhere as I think most here do also.

Baptism is not about anyone witnessing anything. No one has to see you get baptized. Nothing has to be verbally spoken during baptism. The person who puts you in the water is unimportant. Baptism is about the belief and obedience of the penitant believer. It is between the "baptizee (one getting placed in the water)" and God. If you came to an understanding of the scriptures all by yourself and there was no one to aid you getting in the water you could immerse yourself and your baptism be valid. We say words during baptism so that the audience understands what we are doing but that is all the words are for. There is no magical incantation (ie "in the name of Jesus" or "Father, Son, and HG") needed. "In the name of" means "by the authority of." The baptizer is telling you by whose authority this baptism is taking place. It helps the audience to understand what is going on. The baptizee and God know what is going on. That's really all that counts.

The baptizer is an aid aid to help get the baptizee in the water. As Christians we are commanded to baptize (Matthew 28:19) therefore it is most appropriate for the baptizer to be a Christian but it doesn't necessarily have to be. I know true story where a 300 lb man wanted to be baptized. The christian who taught him was not strong enough to help him get in the water. They went to the local fire station and they used a contraption to get him in the pool at the station while the christian who taught him watched. The "baptizers" were the contraption and the firefighters. The importance is the believers understanding and getting him in and out of the water. The mechanics of doing this can be performed in a variety of ways. This is what Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 1:17.

Witnesses and words spoken are optional at a baptism. The only two that truly know if you are a saint is you and God. That is why Paul says in Phil 2:12 - "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;"

Edited August 26, 2010 by UncleAbee