The Mosque at Ground Zero & Freedom of Religion

[Matthitjah]

This is not an issue of Freedom of Religion. I wish folks would quit framing it that way.

[MorningGlory]

MG, if it worked that way, the minority groups in our societies would not get to build or do anything.

How can rights be inalienable if they are taken off you by 'popular consensus'?

Standards, public indecency. A little common sense goes a long way. There are people who will bomb, maim, kill and do other things when they are pushed too far. Again, why fan the flames?

And again, if the community center is built, and people react in this way, they should be punished to the full extent of the law. Almost seems to me that we are more concerned with protecting the rights of people to potentially "bomb, maim and kill" more than the rights of people to build a mosque.

Yikes!

Are we allowed to threaten physical violence as a way of swaying government decisions? No way!

There needs to be clear consistent rules applied here, regardless of which minority is applying for a building permit. Threats of violence, or the swinging pendulum of public emotion or feeling, shouldn't come into it at this point.

Well I'm not for maiming or killing. But Americans are different people. What works in Australia, or Europe, or other places just won't work here. We are a country of laws but don't like to be told 'well, just deal with it'. It's just not who we are. These are foreign interests trying to build this mosque and it's OUR right to stop them. That's just how it is.

[MorningGlory]

This is not an issue of Freedom of Religion. I wish folks would quit framing it that way.

No, it's not at all. No one has told these terr....muslims that they can't practice their 'religion'.

[stephk]

Dave - are rights for all americans, or only those who are sensitive, moderate, and play well with others?

The First Amendment is more than just the right to freedom of religion. It's also a guarantee for free speech, free press, free association and the right to take our complaints to the government without fear of reprisal. There are other religions who have had some restrictions on what they can do based the safety and well being of society. Polygamy, animal sacrifice, child marriages, and other things are not allowed and are illegal.

First Amendment - Religion and Expression

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Guest man]

I say we all pitch in and put up a Piggley Wiggley across the street from the Mosque. Give'em free bacon for a year.

[MorningGlory]

I say we all pitch in and put up a Piggley Wiggley across the street from the Mosque. Give'em free bacon for a year.

:dance:

[~candice~]

Dave - are rights for all americans, or only those who are sensitive, moderate, and play well with others?

Right's are for all Americans but if Outreach and Understanding are what you seek. Why place it at that site? In my summation it is to taunt and to enlarge the caliphate with a victory tribute Mosque.

I have right's too, but my rights end when I run into a crowded theatre and yell, "FIRE!"

There are also plenty of reasons why this thing shouldn't be built on that site. Permits for buildings are denied all of the time. The permit for the nearby Greek Orthodox Church is being denied because they want to enlarge the Church with another floor. This is exaclty what's going to happen with the old Burlington Coat Factory/Victory Mosque and War Memorial to the slaughter of innocents.

Dave, no one (that I know of) is denying that it is a crazy move and won't be at al effective as 'outreach and understanding'. My argument is and has been that denial of permit based on community sentiment is wrong. If you want to deny it for another legitimate reason, a reason which is applied consistently to all citizens regardless of which minority group they belong to, then great.

MG, if it worked that way, the minority groups in our societies would not get to build or do anything.

How can rights be inalienable if they are taken off you by 'popular consensus'?

Standards, public indecency. A little common sense goes a long way. There are people who will bomb, maim, kill and do other things when they are pushed too far. Again, why fan the flames?

And again, if the community center is built, and people react in this way, they should be punished to the full extent of the law. Almost seems to me that we are more concerned with protecting the rights of people to potentially "bomb, maim and kill" more than the rights of people to build a mosque.

Yikes!

Are we allowed to threaten physical violence as a way of swaying government decisions? No way!

There needs to be clear consistent rules applied here, regardless of which minority is applying for a building permit. Threats of violence, or the swinging pendulum of public emotion or feeling, shouldn't come into it at this point.

Well I'm not for maiming or killing. But Americans are different people. What works in Australia, or Europe, or other places just won't work here. We are a country of laws but don't like to be told 'well, just deal with it'. It's just not who we are. These are foreign interests trying to build this mosque and it's OUR right to stop them. That's just how it is.

Two separate issues here, MG. You are free to protest as much as you like. You can try to stop them as much as you like. Go for it.

That stands alone from a potential violent reaction. I just don't see that as a valid excuse. People need to act inside the law, regardless of how they feel.

There are ways to protest without resorting to maiming and killing. Being 'different' people doesn't excuse using the prospect of a violent reaction a reason to deny this, in my opinion.

[nebula]

No one has brought up yet the issue of the Islamic practice of building a mosque over a site of victory as a declaration of triumph.

[nebula]

And I respect your opinion, candice. But think of this; a madam wants to build a brothel on the corner, half a block from you and your family and two blocks from your kids school. You and your neighbors are dead set against it and protest in the street. But, because the 'working girls' have a right to work, you and your neighbors are told to suck it up and get over it. Same scenario, different neighborhood. What do you think of this kind of business in your neighborhood?

Brothels are illegal. Mosques are not.

OK, change that to Adult Bookstore.

[stephk]

No one has brought up yet the issue of the Islamic practice of building a mosque over a site of victory as a declaration of triumph.

It's basically sedition. The imam has stated that he wants the US to be sharia compliant. Sharia law and the US Constitution are incompatible.