distinguishing false from real

[Fraught]

Man - what about the Apostle Paul in Romans 7 & 8 (context) specifically Ro 7:15 etc? Paul continued to sin after salvation and I don't read anywhere that the spirit leaves him after each sin. If the HS is a seal, that is removed at each sin, then it's not really a seal.

I never stated that the Holy Spirit leaves everytime a sin is committed.

Here is the post I was addressing.

I know people who have His Spirit, but reject His leading because they rather follow their favorite teacher/preacher, no matter how many times it is pointed out that this teacher teaches certain scripture wrong by those who are listening to the Spirit. How do you approach this type of person? How does one warn them when they do not listen? Just because one has the Holy Spirit does not mean that they follow Him.

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Jesus said, "If the blind follow the blind, they will both fall into the ditch".

Peter said there will be false prophets who will bring in destructive heresies. If someone is sealed with the Holy Spirit and chooses to accept those heresies, are they truly destructive?

In Paul's letter to Timothy, he said there will those who will have a form of godliness and that we are to stay away from them. Why the warning if we are sealed with the Holy Spirit? They can't hurt us.

I don't deny the seal of the Holy Spirit. The Word states it and I believe it. Another thing I believe is that seal can be broken. If that seal can't be broken, it was never there to begin with.

A Kingdom divided cannot stand.

i would have to agree with you. plain and simple, God is a Holy God and therefore could not reside within such a person. we read over and over again how God left certain places when the people would not conform themselves to His requirements and how only Moses could go up on the mountain and only the priests of Levi could go into the Holy Place. these are only a very few of the many examples that God has provided for our learning.

[Guest man]

My personal opinion, I believe that it's from God, but I don't know, there is no way to say it isn't or it is unless the Spirit leads, and or, you experience it. Seek the Lord on this one, I'm learning more and more that all things Must be based on our intimacy with Him.

Ok.

[~candice~]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man do you realise by saying this, it means that no one with false theology has the seal? God does not require perfection in our understanding of Him and how He works in order for our salvation to be sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would we assume that people with WOF-er theology must be unsaved and unsealed? Why would we neglect to correct the false teachings even if they were sealed?

[~candice~]

There is something bothering me about this and I can't quite put it into words. I know that the Lord has a reason for all things that He does, but He doesn't always reveal it to us. So when it comes to evaluating purported miracles, why do we demand that we understand His reasoning before we accept it is a miracle?

Being able to come up with a reason, and assigning that reason to Him, is not how we decide whether or not a miracle is (a) true, and (b) from Him. The gold standard (pardon the pun) has always been the Word.

I am very skeptical of the gold-dust event in Toronto, but I also do not assume that the Lord didn't work because I didn't understand why.

I also note in the bible that miracles were not enough for some people... they could see them and not come to belief, they could see them, come to belief, and then waver. Miracles are not the be all and end all.

[Guest man]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man do you realise by saying this, it means that no one with false theology has the seal? God does not require perfection in our understanding of Him and how He works in order for our salvation to be sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would we assume that people with WOF-er theology must be unsaved and unsealed? Why would we neglect to correct the false teachings even if they were sealed?

Let's get this question out of the way first. A yes or no is all that's required.

Do you believe someone who is sealed with the Holy Spirit can end up not getting into the Kingdom of Heaven? Can they end up in hell?

I say no.

[~candice~]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man do you realise by saying this, it means that no one with false theology has the seal? God does not require perfection in our understanding of Him and how He works in order for our salvation to be sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would we assume that people with WOF-er theology must be unsaved and unsealed? Why would we neglect to correct the false teachings even if they were sealed?

Let's get this question out of the way first. A yes or no is all that's required.

Do you believe someone who is sealed with the Holy Spirit can end up not getting into the Kingdom of Heaven? Can they end up in hell?

I say no.

No

Now in return, a yes or no question, does believing false theology break a seal?

[Guest man]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man do you realise by saying this, it means that no one with false theology has the seal? God does not require perfection in our understanding of Him and how He works in order for our salvation to be sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would we assume that people with WOF-er theology must be unsaved and unsealed? Why would we neglect to correct the false teachings even if they were sealed?

Let's get this question out of the way first. A yes or no is all that's required.

Do you believe someone who is sealed with the Holy Spirit can end up not getting into the Kingdom of Heaven? Can they end up in hell?

I say no.

No

Now in return, a yes or no question, does believing false theology break a seal?

The answer could be yes and no.

Example 1: Some people believe one must be baptized in order to be saved. I would say no to this one.

Example 2: The Jahovah Witness believes that Christ is Michael the archangel. I would say yes to this one.

[~candice~]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man do you realise by saying this, it means that no one with false theology has the seal? God does not require perfection in our understanding of Him and how He works in order for our salvation to be sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would we assume that people with WOF-er theology must be unsaved and unsealed? Why would we neglect to correct the false teachings even if they were sealed?

Let's get this question out of the way first. A yes or no is all that's required.

Do you believe someone who is sealed with the Holy Spirit can end up not getting into the Kingdom of Heaven? Can they end up in hell?

I say no.

No

Now in return, a yes or no question, does believing false theology break a seal?

The answer could be yes and no.

Example 1: Some people believe one must be baptized in order to be saved. I would say no to this one.

Example 2: The Jahovah Witness believes that Christ is Michael the archangel. I would say yes to this one.

Agreed, but doesn't the bible define for us what are those essential beliefs, that failure to adhere to renders one unsaved?

I do not believe that WOF'ers, by their adherence to false doctrine, have rendered themselves unsaved. I believe their theology skews their idea of the nature of God and where His power sits, but isn't a salvational error.

These people are my brothers and sisters in Christ, who are misguided, but in my opinion, saved.

[Guest man]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man do you realise by saying this, it means that no one with false theology has the seal? God does not require perfection in our understanding of Him and how He works in order for our salvation to be sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would we assume that people with WOF-er theology must be unsaved and unsealed? Why would we neglect to correct the false teachings even if they were sealed?

Let's get this question out of the way first. A yes or no is all that's required.

Do you believe someone who is sealed with the Holy Spirit can end up not getting into the Kingdom of Heaven? Can they end up in hell?

I say no.

No

Now in return, a yes or no question, does believing false theology break a seal?

The answer could be yes and no.

Example 1: Some people believe one must be baptized in order to be saved. I would say no to this one.

Example 2: The Jahovah Witness believes that Christ is Michael the archangel. I would say yes to this one.

Agreed, but doesn't the bible define for us what are those essential beliefs, that failure to adhere to renders one unsaved?

I do not believe that WOF'ers, by their adherence to false doctrine, have rendered themselves unsaved. I believe their theology skews their idea of the nature of God and where His power sits, but isn't a salvational error.

These people are my brothers and sisters in Christ, who are misguided, but in my opinion, saved.

I never stated that WOF'ers were unsaved. Reread the post you first responded too.

[~candice~]

If someone who is following the teachings of a false teacher and is considered to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, why do we spend so much time warning them about those false teachings? That doesn't make sense. What does it matter what he's doing or who he's following, he's sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We can pretty much disregard all the warnings about false prophets and teachers because if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit, we're good to go.

I don't understand how someone can say an individual is filled with the Holy Spirit if they are continuing a life of sin. That doesn't make sense to me. If someone rejects the truth, who can honestly say they are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Man, what are you saying here?

Yes, I believe they are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit AND that we should warn them about false teachings. Who says just because you are sealed, that false teachings are no longer to be avoided? That flies against everything I read in the Word.