gay priests

[wyguy]

What about a homosexual priest who has never given in to his desires and remains celibate?

[OneLight]

What about a homosexual priest who has never given in to his desires and remains celibate?

How would this person be a homosexual if they are renewed in Christ, to be like Him?

[~candice~]

What about a homosexual priest who has never given in to his desires and remains celibate?

I hate these debates, ultimately it comes down to the whole noun v's verb argument...

We aren't known or labelled by our temptations. If he is celibate, not giving in to his desires (including lust), and has an appropriate hate for sin and biblical attitude towards the issue, I am OK with it.

If he introduces himself as a celebate gay priest, I have issue with it. If he says 'being gay is OK so long as you don't act on it', I'd also have issue with it. If the battle to keep his mind pure ties him up for hours a day, it will likely inhibit his ministry.

OK, I'm up to four cents...

[Sing_Unto_The_Lord]

Hi.

I guess for me I approach it from a slightly different angle.

I fully accept what has been said about having both an attitude and indeed a life that confirm it as being wrong, but I am also mindful that some battles take much longer to fight and indeed that a great many attacks and condemnations seemingly come from within oneself.

I fear we are far too quick to condemn the sinner and the sin sometimes.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

God bless

Sing

[Arthur Durnan]

I seem to recall a 30-odd page thread on this topic being tossed around before...

JWalker may I ask why is it that it is that particular sin you want to see more tolerance for in the ministry? I really struggle these days with the concept that the homosexual desire should be accommodated, especially in (and from) the pulpit. And it's not because I'm homophobic.

We know these desires are not of Him, they are of the devil, the father of lies and the ruler of this world. Any christian who is tied up in this sin or harbouring same sex desires should want a renewal of their mind so that their desires line up with His. Having a like mind with Christ means hating sin and not looking for ways in which to have it more tolerated.

We don't want it in our minister, because we don't want it in our church, or in any members at all.

Just my feelings on this topic......

Arthur Durnan Replies -

A "gay priest" is akin to a "soft butcher." Homosexuality itself is a grievous sin in the sight of God. Jesus Himself declared HETEROsexuality as God's precise order of created humanness. If "gay priests" are acceptable in your church structure, why not polygamists, hermaphrodites, child abusers, inveterate gamblers, drunkards, whatever? Some "church"! Some "salvation"!

[Joshua-777]

I understand that gay priests are starting to pop up in churches ever so slowly, BUT why is it wrong? I disagree with homosexual acts but it is a sin just as lying and stealing. i do believe the bible says if you have anger torward another person you have murdered in your heart...is that not just as bad?! I fell if the priest understands he needs to fight it and keeps trying to get help for it ,he is just as we are, sinners in a world who needs god!

First, the bible makes it clear that a Teacher, or a Pastor will be judged by a higher standard, He is to be an example to the flock. If someone is struggling with this sin, He is in no place of leadership, though He does desperately need more of God, He is in no position to lead the flock. I'm using the CJB version of the bible for scripture references.

James 1:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, since you know that we will be judged more severely.

Second, When we come to the Lord, it is not an excuse to continue sinning. If a priest truly knows the Lord, he would not be homosexual, To call yourself gay is to take the standpoint I am gay, rather than I am a believer struggling with sin, now when we come to Jesus, He leads us we are free from sin, if someone is still dwelling in sin he does not know Jesus. Homosexuality is of the devil, and those lead by the devil rather than the spirit have no place in church leadership.

Now in 1st John it makes it pretty clear those living in sin, do not know the Lord.

1 John 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him while we are walking in the darkness, we are lying and not living out the truth. 7 But if we are walking in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of his Son Yeshua purifies us from all sin.

1 John 2:3 The way we can be sure we know him is if we are obeying his commands. 4 Anyone who says, "I know him," but isn't obeying his commands is a liar - the truth is not in him. 5 But if someone keeps doing what he says, then truly love for God has been brought to its goal in him. This is how we are sure that we are united with him. 6 A person who claims to be continuing in union with him ought to conduct his life the way he did.

1 John 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and that there is no sin in him. 6 So no one who remains united with him continues sinning; everyone who does continue sinning has neither seen him nor known him. 7 Children, don't let anyone deceive you - it is the person that keeps on doing what is right who is righteous, just as God is righteous. 8 The person who keeps on sinning is from the Adversary, because from the very beginning the Adversary has kept on sinning. It was for this very reason that the Son of God appeared, to destroy these doings of the Adversary.

If we look at 1st corinthians 6:9 people who live in the deeds of the flesh will not share in the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Don't you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't delude yourselves - people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,

God calls Homosexuality an abomination to Him, He created marriage to be an example of Him.

[Bold Believer]

What about a homosexual priest who has never given in to his desires and remains celibate?

It is written: ..."and such WERE some of you...."

It is NOT written: ..."and some of you still are."

You either ARE or ARE NOT. Believers, true believers, are not. Maturity level has a lot to do with how much old sin-patterns affect us i think. Anything that causes us to stumble into those old sin-patterns needs to be avoided.

A person such as you describe is an eunuch, WVGuy, not a homosexual. One can't BE homosexual and not desire men sexually. Homosexuality is outside the pale of nature. It simply isn't normal. Nature doesn't violate itself, nature IS heterosexual. Nature reproduces after its own kind (Genesis), homosexuals do not because their twisted and perverse desires violate the Genesis mandate on reproduction. If a man has no desire for women, that does NOT make him homosexual. Jesus stated that such men DO exist and insinuated that they were not sinning to be such. It's my opinion that Jesus Himself was such a man.

A practicing homosexual is an abomination and under the death penalty of Leviticus (worthy of death). Such a person in an unrepentant state cannot and should not be in the ministry. If such a person IS in a repentant state, then they are no longer homosexual and may minister. We are cautioned in Scripture not to lay hands on (ordain to ministry) any man quickly.

[~candice~]

What about a homosexual priest who has never given in to his desires and remains celibate?

It is written: ..."and such WERE some of you...."

It is NOT written: ..."and some of you still are."

You either ARE or ARE NOT. Believers, true believers, are not. Maturity level has a lot to do with how much old sin-patterns affect us i think. Anything that causes us to stumble into those old sin-patterns needs to be avoided.

A person such as you describe is an eunuch, WVGuy, not a homosexual. One can't BE homosexual and not desire men sexually. Homosexuality is outside the pale of nature. It simply isn't normal. Nature doesn't violate itself, nature IS heterosexual. Nature reproduces after its own kind (Genesis), homosexuals do not because their twisted and perverse desires violate the Genesis mandate on reproduction. If a man has no desire for women, that does NOT make him homosexual. Jesus stated that such men DO exist and insinuated that they were not sinning to be such. It's my opinion that Jesus Himself was such a man.

A practicing homosexual is an abomination and under the death penalty of Leviticus (worthy of death). Such a person in an unrepentant state cannot and should not be in the ministry. If such a person IS in a repentant state, then they are no longer homosexual and may minister. We are cautioned in Scripture not to lay hands on (ordain to ministry) any man quickly.

BB where did your opinion that Jesus was a eunich come from?

I want to point out two things.

1 - Heb 4, Jesus was tempted in all things...., and

2 - Lev 21, the requirements for a priest, pay close attention to v 20.

???

How does this fit with Jesus being a eunich?

[Bold Believer]

There are no known instances in Scripture of Jesus being even remotely attracted to women sexually. A eunuch would have easily been able to defeat a sexual temptation, whereas a man who preferred women would have struggled. This is of course, a personal opinion. If Jesus were attracted to women, rather than not, I don't see any problem or contradiction in Scripture though, as we know He did not sin.

I understand your question regarding Lev 21:20, however there are different KINDS of eunuchs, per Jesus.

1. A eunuch by emasculation (war or accident)

2. A eunuch by lack of natural desire (low sex drive/testosterone perhaps)

3. A man who willfully sets aside his desire to serve God (self made)

Lev 21:20 refers to the eunuch in situation #1, but not to the others. I suspect Jesus fell into category #2 or #3, most likely #3.

[Joshua-777]

Just to point out. Eunuch's where servants who had had their genitals' dismembered "Castrated" so they can serve the woman in the kings palace or serve other royalty. Without the king worrying about sexual intentions.

As far as Jesus being an Eunuch, Don't think so because if he was He would not have been able to fulfill the law.

Deuteronomy 23:1 "A man with crushed or damaged private parts may not enter the assembly of ADONAI.