nebula Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 9, 2010 That is one thing I dislike about those who are so into tongues. They set themselves up as having a superior faith or walk because of their tongues, believing that those who dont have them are missing out. Your walk is not better than mine because of your tongues. Your faith is not superior to mine because of your tongues. Nor is mine better than yours. The Holy Spirit gives the gifts as He sees fit. He has not seen fit to give me that gift so how can you say Im missing out? You are essentially saying that you know better than the Holy Spirit what I need for my walk with Him. I never said anything about better or superior vs inferior. Are you better or superior for having seen the night sky away from city lights? Is having eaten a Dove ice cream bar a matter of superiority? I never said my walk is better or that I know the Holy Spirit better. Did not Paul say he wished everyone spoke in tongues (1 Cor. 14:5)? How is what I am saying any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2010 I may think you are missing out on something Please dont think that way. I am content with what He has given me. Im not missing out on anything. Well, to me it's like I'm eating a Dove ice cream bar, and someone mentions they never ate one, and so I say, "Oh, you have got to try one!" And they respond, "Nah, I'm not missing anything." And I'm thinking, "Oh, but this ice cream and this chocolate are so rich and creamy!" "How can you think you are not missing anything? If you only knew!" Or it's like you going to the NY City area talking to someone about the night sky you can see in Arizona, and the person responds that what they see is enough for them. And you are thinking, "Oh, but if you only knew!" That is one thing I dislike about those who are so into tongues. They set themselves up as having a superior faith or walk because of their tongues, believing that those who dont have them are missing out. Your walk is not better than mine because of your tongues. Your faith is not superior to mine because of your tongues. Nor is mine better than yours. The Holy Spirit gives the gifts as He sees fit. He has not seen fit to give me that gift so how can you say Im missing out? You are essentially saying that you know better than the Holy Spirit what I need for my walk with Him. There is a vast difference between encouraging and provoking one another in the love of the L-rd, out of a desire to share what G-d has blessed us with, and boasting and parading certain things in a puerile demonstration of one-up-manship. There may well be people that have an immature overemphasis on the tongues gifted by G-d for personal devotion, but there is not the hint of it in Neb's post, nor even the vaguest whiff of superiority. Personally I embrace being provoked and challenged...I am not threatened by it, and if someone I trust and respect shows me something they have learnt or dicovered in G-d, and is biblical that I think I can use in my own walk...then my NEW- NATURAL inclination is to pray about it and desire it....I want whatever is going....but my greatest desire by far is for personal character and to be a man of faith that can stand firm on the Rock of Ages as the storms keep coming. Thank you Botz, you seem to have eloquently expressed what I wanted to say, but with more grace than I could muster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 9, 2010 there is a mention of it in the Montanist around 400 ad -they were of the anabaptist line... which really makes the Baptist squirm Can't be all bad then. thats funny Botz.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 9, 2010 It doesn't usually stop there...those that believe this type of personal tongue is not the same as evidenced in the Bible, usually believe everything else that was a spiritual gift, also disappeared with the death of the Apostles, or with the completing of the Scriptures, and to my mind have a rather dry approach to the Christian life, with everything supposedly based on the Word (according to their interpretation)...admittedly there is often a stronger emphasis on character, which I admire and cherish. Cessationist focus on the verse you have cited and it is a good study to examine if when... The latter letters of Paul the eventual advice to His beloved Timothy, the tearing out of eyes and giving to Paul whom they loved, etc. (But) more importantly the leading of this understanding John 20:27-29 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." NKJV if I were to draw a conclusion to this statement of our Lord it would be this- He seem to be indicating a direction of intent... that He desires a people that will believe solely upon His Word alone and in that believing it will be evidence enough to place their whole entire weight as to being upon it. After all the faith He desires is the one who does not recognize the property of water that causes us to sink! It is further supported by Peter near His finish 1 Peter 1:8-9 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith - the salvation of your souls. NKJV It is such a haunting thing to hear the Words of Peter's write- knowing all that He witnessed (empirical speaking) and now with the power of The Holy Spirit and his own testimony of the reality they were to believe upon The Word and The drawing of God! Why does Peter not utilize miracles and sign and wonders here? It is a good examination to read the last written Words of Peter and The Holy Spirit that warn us of total destruction ot the empirical evidence we have been brought forth in understanding yet are taught by Christ that it is a small beginning which we so largely rely upon! I am of the opinion that God is asking us to turn loose totally of the created things and grasp using the tool of faith that which we have no concept of yet. Just as we first (birth) so shall the last be come (born again) into a world where sin has never been nor even considered.... this brings tears of hope that this would come quickly by His return... 1 John 3:2-3 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. NKJV and we know this purity is brought forth by fire 1 Peter 1:7 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, NKJV and we know the fire burns all created empirical stuff... and if we rely on that to believe in Christ what shall we be if it is all removed? 1 Peter 1:23-25 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because "All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away, 25 But the word of the Lord endures forever." Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you. NKJV There is one other danger which the Lord speaks of... in the signs and wonders department 2 Thess 2:9-12 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. NKJV Knowing Christ our shepherd and His proven love for us and has told us all things- He seems to be leading us away from reliance of signs and wonders as to determine if He is in something or not. I am not saying miracles do not happen for I have witnessed them in my own life as you also I am sure... but I do not demand to see His hand at work in all that I ask of Him... and I examine all things by the fruit of their existence according to the Word He has formed us with in these last days. Love Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Elly Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 415 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/31/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1945 Share Posted October 9, 2010 On another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2010 There is a vast difference between encouraging and provoking one another in the love of the L-rd, out of a desire to share what G-d has blessed us with, and boasting and parading certain things in a puerile demonstration of one-up-manship. There may well be people that have an immature overemphasis on the tongues gifted by G-d for personal devotion, but there is not the hint of it in Neb's post, nor even the vaguest whiff of superiority. Personally I embrace being provoked and challenged...I am not threatened by it, and if someone I trust and respect shows me something they have learnt or dicovered in G-d, and is biblical that I think I can use in my own walk...then my NEW- NATURAL inclination is to pray about it and desire it....I want whatever is going....but my greatest desire by far is for personal character and to be a man of faith that can stand firm on the Rock of Ages as the storms keep coming. Botz, I had no idea you could write so eloquently! Very well said, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Mind1Spirit Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 110 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/29/1961 Share Posted October 9, 2010 On another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,856 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2010 Enoob I do not know any Christians who demand tongues as a sign.Any who do are obviously on the wrong track. I know plenty that use it as a test of fellowship. You would be wise to avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 9, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Now some have suggested that this version of tongues, predates 1901 and asked how we know, it wasn't around before 1901? Well we know it wasn't because not one word was ever written about it, prior to 1901. Tongues Throughout Church History Justin Martyr (100-165 AD), Irenaeus (130 - 202 AD), Asterius Urbanus (c. 232 AD), Novatian (d. 258 AD), Hilary (c. 300 - 367 AD), and Ambrose (340 - 397 AD). Tongues "T"--or other strong manifestations "M" of the Holy Spirit--occurred in or among: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 10, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Now some have suggested that this version of tongues, predates 1901 and asked how we know, it wasn't around before 1901? Well we know it wasn't because not one word was ever written about it, prior to 1901. Tongues Throughout Church History Justin Martyr (100-165 AD), Irenaeus (130 - 202 AD), Asterius Urbanus (c. 232 AD), Novatian (d. 258 AD), Hilary (c. 300 - 367 AD), and Ambrose (340 - 397 AD). Tongues "T"--or other strong manifestations "M" of the Holy Spirit--occurred in or among: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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