SAVED or ........SAVED then LOST?

[Lanakila]

Munari, I promise I will read that book if you will read: Eternal Security by Charles Stanley. Charles used to be an Arminian (believe you can lose your salvation), but changed after further study of the Bible.

[munari]

Lan,

Two questions, how long is it and how much does it cost. "The Salvation Controverys" is only 140 pgs and costs only $10. I don't want to promise to read a 500 pg book that costs $40.

[munari]

I just realized I never stated what my biggest concern with OSAS is. My biggest concern is that one who believes in that has to disregard several verses from the Bible. As I stated earlier, the Bible portrays us as having been saved, as being saved now, and that we will be saved. So, salvation is something that has happened, is happening, and will happen. By believing in OSAS, only the past part of salvation is being addressed, its something that HAS happened. I can say this because if someone is saved and is always saved (has no worry about losing salvation), then there is no need for the continuing action of salvation in the present and definately no need of it in the future.

[Lanakila]

Eternal Security

Charles F.Stanley  

Our Price: $9.97  

Format: Hardcover

Publisher: Thomas Nelson Publishers

Publication Date: 1997

ISBN: 078526163X

Weight: 1.00 lbs.

Its not very long, 150 pages at most. This is from George's worthybooks link.

I posted this on here because your email box is full.

Your explanation of salvation does not make sense to me.

[munari]

Thanks for the book info.

What part does not make sense? The part about it being a past, present, and future event?

[elect]

munari...could you give an answer for this question?

If one is saved......

and then looses that salvation (as you think).....

then WHAT? were they ever saved from to begin with?

You believe what you believe, not relying on the promise that Jesus gave us a "rest". (no fear of losing sal., perfect love casteth out fear)

Matt11:28-30..."Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest....Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls....For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

BEAUTIFUL :inlove:

[Lanakila]

What are you saved from in the first place munari?  If not hell, then what?  If I am saved from hell and given eternal life, its eternal and I was given it. Eternal does mean forever, not just until I commit "mortal" sin.

[munari]

We are saved from eternal damnation. But you didn't address my question about what specifically it was that I said that did not make sense to you.

This will illustrate what I was talking about:

"Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5

[CWJ]

Whenever OSnASers use Phil2:12 they always leave off a qualifier for that...Phil2:13.....so lets examine both together ...in context:

Phil2:12-13..."Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling...For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

Looking in verses9-11 we see the glorification of God's almightiness.  We see His greatness, we see He is the KING of KINGS. We see HE is GOD!

We SHOULD have a Godly fear, or respect for His Kingship of the universe.

But to say we should FEAR for our salvation is a contradiction to 1John4:18

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out fear;  because fear hath TORMENT.  He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

With the indwelling Holy Spirit, we have perfect love "IN" us, which does NOT produce fear of losing salvation.

This is consistant with verse 13 above...God works in us, we don't even have to fear for He does what we can't do, puts us in His will.

Also in contextual location to this in Phil2 we find verse 3...

"Let nothing be done through strife or VAINGLORY;  but in LOWLINESS of mind let each other esteem other better than themselves."

We can see that this passage is stressing an "attitude" in our christian walk, not a fear of loosing salvation.

2Cor2:15.."For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that ARE SAVED, and in them that perish."

1Cor1:18.."For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which ARE SAVED it is the power of God."

I guess it really does matter which translation you use!

So.... again I ask....can anyone show me.... SPECIFICALLY....where we cease being a child of God.....where we get "un-re-born"....where we are "un-re-created"......where God ceases to work IN us....where the Holy Spirit ceases to indwell us?

The bible SPECIFICALLY tells us these things are so...so shouldn't it SPECIFICALLY tell us when they can be undone?

(that's IF they can be)

Peace, Carl...OSAS :inlove:

[wordsower]

Munari,

What about John 10:27,28?  My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me.  And I give them ETERNAL life, and they shall NEVER perish; neither shall ANYONE snatch them out of my hand.

It doesn't say unless they screw up.  Look at all the prophets that sinned and were still His.  Look at David, who committed adultery and murder and after a year repented and ask God to restore the JOY of his salvation, not his salvation.  He was miserable in sin because he was saved.  How about Jonah who left the presence of the Lord, deliberately disobeying Him.  God put Him in the belly of a whale to get through to him!  He got through tho, just like He does with us when we sin.  

You don't have to believe every doctrine of your church just because that's what they say.  That's what the working out of your OWN salvation is all about.  I go to a Baptist church and the pastor believes that Sunday is holy.  I don't, I believe that every day is the same.  Doesn't mean he's wrong and I'm right, I'm just claiming the 14th (of Romans) One man esteems one day above another, another esteems everyday alike, let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

You have to decide what you believe by what the Spirit shows you and pray about it and you'll know what's right.  Either way, there's no effect on your salvation if you don't understand it as OSAS, just some extra worrisome baggage you have to carry around.  I'll still see ya there!!!!