Church is not a building snippet I wrote recently...

[nebula]

Show me the scripture that speaks against calling a building a church. It's really that simple.

Where does the Scripture actually call a building "church"?

[Guest man]

Show me the scripture that speaks against calling a building a church. It's really that simple.

Where does the Scripture actually call a building "church"?

That's what I'm asking. Where in scripture does it indicate that this practice is not allowed?

Are we to act upon something because someone believes something to be wrong, or do we act upon it because it is in fact wrong? There's a big difference there.

If someone is going to put forth an argument and claim it to be scriptural, the very least they can do is provide the scripture. Is it wrong for me to ask that?

[carlos123]

Are we to act upon something because someone believes something to be wrong, or do we act upon it because it is in fact wrong? There's a big difference there.

Agreed.

If someone is going to put forth an argument and claim it to be scriptural, the very least they can do is provide the scripture. Is it wrong for me to ask that?

Not wrong at all.

Are you saying that you believe Church is a building Man?

I am saying it is not. I mean Scripturally speaking of course.

To go into why Church is not a building involves digging into verses on what Church is which I would be glad to do except for one thing Man. As I said you've been around for a while. I am concerned that any discussion with someone such as yourself who has formed opinions over a long period of time might not be very profitable to engage in with respect to us arriving at agreement on what the Word says.

To be fair I suppose a similar concern would be shared by you regarding me.

I am willing but am wondering what you might say in response to the following questions.

Can we stick to what is written and nothing other than what is written in the plain meaning of the words used in the Bible? Without resorting to historical conjectures about what Church was thought to be in New Testament times or other extra biblical insight? I am interested in what the Word says Man not in discussing historical conjecture that might contradict what is plainly taught in the Word.

Secondly and just as importantly are you willing to embrace the belief that Church is not a building and that we should not go around implying by our word choice that is is if the Scriptures clearly say it is not? The willingness must be there, and I mean a sincere willingness, or any discussion will be fruitless. Jesus said that if any man is willing he will know of any teaching whether it is of God or not. If either you are unwilling to embrace that Church is not a building or me that it is then one of us is not going to see what the Bible says as an expression of what God thinks and will fight against it. Not good.

I am willing to embrace the belief that Church is a building if you are willing to embrace the belief that it isn't and to act accordingly in any future discussions of this issue.

What say ye to my questions?

Carlos

[RGR]

Is there a sin being committed when we call that building a "church" or are we just being petty?

Serious question.

I wouldn't call it a sin, but I would not consider the issue petty.

We have in our minds that "church" is the Sunday morning meeting with an ordained graduated-from-seminary/Bible school pastor presiding. I've had discussions with Christians who got offended at the idea of having "church" in someone's home or at the campground or wherever. Oh, you can call it a "Bible study" - but it isn't church. I also know a lot of people who hold higher reverence for the building than they do the body of Christ (people), or acting like the building is akin to God somehow.

So I do believe correct terminology matters.

An issue I've dealt with myself, Neb. Our church is in the bad section of town; it was a nicer section of town when the church was built 50+ years ago. Even as a kid the church was in a nice section of town but now the section of town is run down, we hear people drive by playing their "boom boom boom" music, etc.

Some of us at the church have had the casual discussion of possibly how much better the church might do located in a differente section of town; we're known not so affectionately as the church in the hood lol!!!!

The thought I've had is "gosh, I'd miss the building....I grew up here, etc." God had to remind me that while, yes, I might miss the building and the associated memories, God is not confined to a building...He can still move regardless of where we choose to gather!

[Guest man]

Are we to act upon something because someone believes something to be wrong, or do we act upon it because it is in fact wrong? There's a big difference there.

Agreed.

If someone is going to put forth an argument and claim it to be scriptural, the very least they can do is provide the scripture. Is it wrong for me to ask that?

Not wrong at all.

Are you saying that you believe Church is a building Man?

I am saying it is not. I mean Scripturally speaking of course.

To go into why Church is not a building involves digging into verses on what Church is which I would be glad to do except for one thing Man. As I said you've been around for a while. I am concerned that any discussion with someone such as yourself who has formed opinions over a long period of time might not be very profitable to engage in with respect to us arriving at agreement on what the Word says.

To be fair I suppose a similar concern would be shared by you regarding me.

I am willing but am wondering what you might say in response to the following questions.

Can we stick to what is written and nothing other than what is written in the plain meaning of the words used in the Bible? Without resorting to historical conjectures about what Church was thought to be in New Testament times or other extra biblical insight? I am interested in what the Word says Man not in discussing historical conjecture that might contradict what is plainly taught in the Word.

Secondly and just as importantly are you willing to embrace the belief that Church is not a building and that we should not go around implying by our word choice that is is if the Scriptures clearly say it is not? The willingness must be there, and I mean a sincere willingness, or any discussion will be fruitless. Jesus said that if any man is willing he will know of any teaching whether it is of God or not. If either you are unwilling to embrace that Church is not a building or me that it is then one of us is not going to see what the Bible says as an expression of what God thinks and will fight against it. Not good.

I am willing to embrace the belief that Church is a building if you are willing to embrace the belief that it isn't and to act accordingly in any future discussions of this issue.

What say ye to my questions?

Carlos

I say you're attempting to avoid the issue.

My length of membership with this site has nothing to do with how I view the Truth. You claim your stance is scriptural, and all I'm saying is show me. I have no hidden agenda. Show me what you got. No outside sources, strictly from the Word. It can't get any simplier then that.

[carlos123]

I say you're attempting to avoid the issue.

We haven't even begun a discussion of verses on this issue and you are already accusing me of attempting to avoid the issue? Based on what exactly? That I asked you if you were willing to take what the Bible says at face value? What do you base your accusation on?

Mind you I am not offended. No biggie if anyone thinks this or that about me. It's par for the course of being a Christian and talking straight about things. But I am wondering what the basis for your belief that I am attempting to avoid the issue is?

What I am attempting to do is not waste my time discussing things that will lead nowhere respecting any kind of agreement on what is written.

My length of membership with this site has nothing to do with how I view the Truth. You claim your stance is scriptural, and all I'm saying is show me. I have no hidden agenda. Show me what you got. No outside sources, strictly from the Word. It can't get any simplier then that.

You are right in saying that your length of membership has nothing to do with how you view the Truth. Where I am coming from is that you have been around Christian circles for a long time such that any view you do have is pretty much set if you are like a lot of Christians who know a lot. I don't know if you are that way but I am just saying that this is a concern of mine in getting into any discussion with someone who knows a lot. I am voicing that concern and did not mean to accuse you of being hardened or otherwise. Sorry if I came across that way.

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and continue but, you did not answer one of my questions. Are you willing to embrace the belief that Church is not a building if the Word clearly says so in the plain meaning of what is written? I need to know your willingness in this Man or we are just going to waste our time.

Carlos

[Guest man]

You are right in saying that your length of membership has nothing to do with how you view the Truth. Where I am coming from is that you have been around Christian circles for a long time such that any view you do have is pretty much set if you are like a lot of Christians who know a lot. I don't know if you are that way but I am just saying that this is a concern of mine in getting into any discussion with someone who knows a lot. I am voicing that concern and did not mean to accuse you of being hardened or otherwise. Sorry if I came across that way.

The Truth is the Truth. Regardless of how much knowledge someone has, if you have the Truth on your side, you have nothing to worry about.

Never be afraid to speak the Truth.

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and continue but, you did not answer one of my questions. Are you willing to embrace the belief that Church is not a building if the Word clearly says so in the plain meaning of what is written? I need to know your willingness in this Man or we are just going to waste our time.

I could say something, but yeah I'm willing.

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Ok, one other thing. The True Church is a spiritual church....I do know that. What I need from you is scripture that says we can't call a building a church.

Edited November 2, 2010 by man

[carlos123]

The Truth is the Truth. Regardless of how much knowledge someone has, if you have the Truth on your side, you have nothing to worry about.

Certainly the Truth is the truth Man but biblically speaking when someone, and I am not referring to you specifically, knows a lot of Truth in their head but does not apply that Truth to love others as Christ would have them do that Truth causes puffness or pride. I believe it is for that reason that many Church leaders and bible school graduates are very difficult to talk to. They know a lot in their heads but they lack humility in their hearts. A humility that is developed in the school of every day life as they learn to apply the Truth they know to interact with others in love.

So yeah...truth is truth but if not applied it makes it near impossible to discuss biblical truth with any hope of said person coming to grips with what may be a wrong position or understanding of truth on their part.

I am just saying in general Man. Again not referring to you specifically as I do not really know you at all.

I could say something, but yeah I'm willing.

Fair enough. I may not want to take the time tonight to start in on some verses but tomorrow I will post more for sure.

If I don't post anything more tonight have a good night Man.

Carlos

[Guest man]

Certainly the Truth is the truth Man but biblically speaking when someone, and I am not referring to you specifically, knows a lot of Truth in their head but does not apply that Truth to love others as Christ would have them do that Truth causes puffness or pride. I believe it is for that reason that many Church leaders and bible school graduates are very difficult to talk to. They know a lot in their heads but they lack humility in their hearts. A humility that is developed in the school of every day life as they learn to apply the Truth they know to interact with others in love.

So yeah...truth is truth but if not applied it makes it near impossible to discuss biblical truth with any hope of said person coming to grips with what may be a wrong position or understanding of truth on their part.

You're gonna run into those types of people. Say what you have to say and move on. We're not instructed to force our beliefs on anyone. If they don't want to listen, that's their problem. There are people out there with the attitude that "It's my way or the highway". I ignore them. And many times, if you just sit back and watch, you'll discover they aren't as bright as they think they are. I sometimes fall into that catagory.

Never be afraid to speak your mind. But if you know it's going to cause strife, just walk away. I don't always follow that advice, but I'm getting better at it.

[Guest]

Show me the scripture that speaks against calling a building a church. It's really that simple.

Where does the Scripture actually call a building "church"?

Sticks

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; Acts 17:24-25

And Stones

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Luke 21:5-6

Will Surly Pass Away

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Revelation 21:1-3

But His Love Will Never Leave You

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

Nor Forsake You

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:1-3

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28

Love, Your Brother Joe