1 cor 11 (the hair issue)

[David333]

WOW!!!

First, methinks it is very apparent as to why we have so many schisms (denominations) within what was initially intended to be a unified whole (the Body of Christ); or as Jesus Himself said to Peter, "....upon this rock, I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Seems to me, that as long as Born-Again Believers continue to bicker and argue and fuss over such trivial matters, that the devil already has the upper hand. How so? His greatest strategy to steal our Joy from us, kill us, and destroy our witness for Christ, is simply to Divide and Conquer. Anyways, moving on to the original post at hand.....

The "real issue" that is being dealt with in this passage, by the Apostle Paul, is not with hair at all. In the same way that Jesus made known the things pertaining to the Kingdom of Heaven by telling parables (Parable = A physical story with a spiritual meaning.), Paul is doing likewise in this passage of Scripture. Paul didn't want us (Christians) to be "splitting hairs" (pun much intended ) over the personal preference/non-salvation/culturally permissible issue of "hair length", or the lack thereof. What Paul was trying to make the Corinthian's and all believers understand is the "Spiritual Authoritative Hierarchy" and where each person individually fits into this system. He is not talking about "hair" in a literal sense, but in a more symbolic way of us understanding the "covering" that we each have over us. Why is this "covering" important? If we will zoom out of chapter 11, and first understand that the Apostle Paul didn't write his letters with chapter and verse seperations (these were added at a later date), we will see that the general gist of Paul's message in the few preceeding and post-ceeding "chapters" is, Prayer. Plain and simple, Prayer.

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father, seeing that He is the One who instituted this Hierarchy from before, "...In the beginning....".

Here is the breakdown of the Spiritual Authoritative Hierarchy: (from 1 Corinthians 11) -

1. God

2. Jesus Christ

3. Man

4. Woman

5. Children (not mentioned by Paul here)

Now, one point I must clear up before it gets all muddled up is this. Just because God set this system of Spiritual Authoritative Hierarchy in this order, this by no means, or in any way whatsoever justifies the "superiority" of a man over a woman. In God's eyes and in His awesome plan of Salvation for us humans, the man is not greater than the woman; nor the woman greater than the man. See verses 8, 9, 11, and 12 of 1 Corinthians 11. And Paul makes this a bit more clear in Galatians 3:28. I do pray that what I have spoken thus far has, or will help us to become a more unified Body of Christ. I will not even begin to touch here the extremely divisive Doctrine of "Womens Roles in the Church". God Bless. Shalom......

[Guest man]

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father,

1 Corinthians 11

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

[David333]

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father,

1 Corinthians 11

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

Thank You. This is my point exactley. Paul can't be talking specifically, or literally about hair because the "covering" on the man is Christ Jesus. Again, Paul is here in this passage using "hair" as a metephorical/symbolic/figurative comparison. Hair = covering. This is also the reason in a previous chapter of the same letter, Paul says,"I would speak unto you Spiritually, but I cannot because you are yet still carnal". Chapter 2:13, 14.

[Guest man]

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father,

1 Corinthians 11

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

Thank You. This is my point exactley. Paul can't be talking specifically, or literally about hair because the "covering" on the man is Christ Jesus. Again, Paul is here in this passage using "hair" as a metephorical/symbolic/figurative comparison. Hair = covering. This is also the reason in a previous chapter of the same letter, Paul says,"I would speak unto you Spiritually, but I cannot because you are yet still carnal". Chapter 2:13, 14.

Where does it state that Jesus is a covering?

[Guest man]

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father,

1 Corinthians 11

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

Thank You. This is my point exactley.

How can that be your point? You say being "uncovered" is dishonoring the head, while the Word states that "being covered" dishonors the head.

Paul can't be talking specifically, or literally about hair....

But he does mention hair being a covering.

1 Corinthians 11

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

[David333]

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father,

1 Corinthians 11

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

Thank You. This is my point exactley. Paul can't be talking specifically, or literally about hair because the "covering" on the man is Christ Jesus. Again, Paul is here in this passage using "hair" as a metephorical/symbolic/figurative comparison. Hair = covering. This is also the reason in a previous chapter of the same letter, Paul says,"I would speak unto you Spiritually, but I cannot because you are yet still carnal". Chapter 2:13, 14.

Where does it state that Jesus is a covering?

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;

[David333]

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father,

1 Corinthians 11

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

Thank You. This is my point exactley.

How can that be your point? You say being "uncovered" is dishonoring the head, while the Word states that "being covered" dishonors the head.

Paul can't be talking specifically, or literally about hair....

But he does mention hair being a covering.

1 Corinthians 11

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

I think your missing Paul's point here. Basically Paul is saying that for a man to pray with a covering other than, his covering "Christ", he will be dishonoring his head, which is Christ.

[Guest man]

This is why he says that praying without a "covering" is dishonoring to the individuals "head", and thereby ultimately dishonorable to God our Father,

1 Corinthians 11

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.

Thank You. This is my point exactley. Paul can't be talking specifically, or literally about hair because the "covering" on the man is Christ Jesus. Again, Paul is here in this passage using "hair" as a metephorical/symbolic/figurative comparison. Hair = covering. This is also the reason in a previous chapter of the same letter, Paul says,"I would speak unto you Spiritually, but I cannot because you are yet still carnal". Chapter 2:13, 14.

Where does it state that Jesus is a covering?

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;

How do you equate "the head" and "covering" as being the same?

[Guest man]

I think your missing Paul's point here. Basically Paul is saying that for a man to pray with a covering other than, his covering "Christ", he will be dishonoring his head, which is Christ.

Where does it say that?

[Guest shiloh357]

It is really no differen't than them having to abstain from pork under the Old Testament as a sign of separation from the heathen nations, and today, we can eat anything sold at the market, which is a sign that the gentiles have been included into God's plan of salvation. There are some differences from the Old and New Testament, not only in the way we conduct ourselves, but when it comes to things used as a sign.

No, it's not like that at all. It is completely dissimilar. Paul's statement to eat anything sold in the market was in the context of eating what was sacrificed to idols. Paul was not declaring that the dietary laws of the OT had been repealed. His point was that idols are nothing and thus eating meat sacrificed to idols was not jeopardizing one's salvation before God. You are still misapplying the text.

It would mean that if a man wears a dress, nobody should say anything, and since we have gotten so liberal with women wearing pants to work and even church, it should be ok for men to wear a dress to work and church.

That is absurd. Women wear pants made and cut for women. They are not wearing men's clothes.

You are trying to insert modern culture into Scripture. Women wearing pants made for women is not cross dressing. I realize that repressive "1910" hick-town culture can't make room for that reality, but one has to be honest about what actually constitutes "cross-dressing." Cross-dressing is more than just wearing clothes made explicitly for the opposite sex. It is an attempt to take on the appearance and characteristics of the opposite sex. It includes perfume, make up, jewlery, and attitude. It is when a woman or man consciously tries to appear in both appearance and in behavior like the opposite sex. Genuine cross-dressing is a sub-set of transexuality.

The "hair" issue in 1 Corinthians occurs in a setting of rampant transexuality and the issues surrounding the believers in that congregation. It was not meant by Paul to be a universal proclamation of how all Christians should appear. Intelligent, thinking people can make the distinction between what is genuine doctrinal material vs. godly advice offered to a specific congregation to deal with a specific need that they have.