Interpreting The Book of Revelation

[sdktlk]

Hey sdktlk,

Can you tell me how to get to Indianapolis?

One step at a time.

In order to give directions, you have to know where I'm starting. If you give me directions from Miami but I'm in Denver, I'll end up in Seattle.

The point is that it is impossible to come to a correct conclusion if you ignore where the scriptures come from. When you start with an incorrect premise (the Church is Israel in prophetic writings) then you're traveling without a compass and going the wrong way.

If I presumed anything else I would be the one that has erred. The New Testament tells us many things concerning the flesh and bone of Christ, and I would be doing despite to the Scriptures if I said anything else. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8) What, "Know ye not that ye are THE temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1Cor 3:16-17)

To say anything else would be anti-semitic. You and I are Jews, for it is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29)

But, brother, here we are off thread again. My question was, "What is not symbolic?"

Edited January 6, 2011 by sdktlk

[MorningGlory]

I did not take it personal, if it seemed I did I apologize. And, being completely computer illiterate, I have no links. :0)

Oh, you are NOT computer illiterate; if you were, you couldn't post here on this board. If you want to learn how to post links and stuff, P.M. me and I will be glad to help. We all had to learn in the beginning, my friend.

[MorningGlory]

Hey sdktlk,

Can you tell me how to get to Indianapolis?

One step at a time.

[nebula]

Back to the thread now... can anyone point me to anything in Revelation that is not symbolic, except for Michael and Satan?

Jesus

[Guest]

Back to the thread now... can anyone point me to anything in Revelation that is not symbolic, except for Michael and Satan?

Jesus

Amen~!

Jesus And His Blood

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

Jesus And His Jews

And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Revelation 7:2-8

Me And You

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. Revelation 7:9-10

Unrepentant Sinners

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. Revelation 9:20-21

Hell

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15

Heaven

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5

His Call To Salvation

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

His Warning To All

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19

His Promise To Return

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20

These Are A Few Of My Favorite Things~

[Guest]

Shiloh, I believe your thread is being hijacked.

:24:

[nebula]

The point is that it is impossible to come to a correct conclusion if you ignore where the scriptures come from. When you start with an incorrect premise (the Church is Israel in prophetic writings) then you're traveling without a compass and going the wrong way.

If I presumed anything else I would be the one that has erred. The New Testament tells us many things concerning the flesh and bone of Christ, and I would be doing despite to the Scriptures if I said anything else. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8) What, "Know ye not that ye are THE temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1Cor 3:16-17)

To say anything else would be anti-semitic. You and I are Jews, for it is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29)

But right after Paul wrote these words, he wrote:

"Then what advantage has the Jew ? Or what is the benefit of circumcision ? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God." (Rom. 3:1-2)

You need to read what Paul says concerning Jews and Gentiles (the circumcised and the uncircumcised) in its entire context - which is the whole book! (OK, he does go off on a tangent beginning in chap. 3 and continuing on through ch. 8, but other than that....)

The true Israel of God are the Jews who have received Jesus as their Messiah, Lord, and Savior. We Gentiles, though, are adopted into their family. It does not make us the replacement of Israel.

In fact the "Church" as we understand it is not the concept Jesus meant when He said ekklesia (the word which has been interpreted as "church"). We are His "assembly", not a new and distinct institution.

[Guest]

The point is that it is impossible to come to a correct conclusion if you ignore where the scriptures come from. When you start with an incorrect premise (the Church is Israel in prophetic writings) then you're traveling without a compass and going the wrong way....

If I presumed anything else I would be the one that has erred. The New Testament tells us many things concerning the flesh and bone of Christ, and I would be doing despite to the Scriptures if I said anything else. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8) What, "Know ye not that ye are THE temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1Cor 3:16-17)

To say anything else would be anti-semitic. You and I are Jews, for it is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29)....

But right after Paul wrote these words, he wrote:

"Then what advantage has the Jew ? Or what is the benefit of circumcision ? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God." (Rom. 3:1-2)

You need to read what Paul says concerning Jews and Gentiles (the circumcised and the uncircumcised) in its entire context - which is the whole book! (OK, he does go off on a tangent beginning in chap. 3 and continuing on through ch. 8, but other than that....)

The true Israel of God are the Jews who have received Jesus as their Messiah, Lord, and Savior. We Gentiles, though, are adopted into their family. It does not make us the replacement of Israel.

In fact the "Church" as we understand it is not the concept Jesus meant when He said ekklesia (the word which has been interpreted as "church"). We are His "assembly", not a new and distinct institution.....

Amen~!

[Guest yod]

If I presumed anything else I would be the one that has erred. The New Testament tells us many things concerning the flesh and bone of Christ, and I would be doing despite to the Scriptures if I said anything else. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8)

What, "Know ye not that ye are THE temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1Cor 3:16-17)

To say anything else would be anti-semitic. You and I are Jews, for it is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29)

It seems obvious to most of us here that you're heading south into Juarez Mexico.

Both verses you've quoted from Romans have nothing to do with gentiles becoming jewish OR Israel. They are about Jews, specifically speaking of the remnant of Israel which gentiles are joined to, creating one new man. Not sure why you think that verse from Corinthians is relevant at all?

But, brother, here we are off thread again. My question was, "What is not symbolic?"

Until we can determine where the journey began, any interpretation you give is going to be in error so I see no point in going all the way to Venezuela with you.

[sdktlk]

If I presumed anything else I would be the one that has erred. The New Testament tells us many things concerning the flesh and bone of Christ, and I would be doing despite to the Scriptures if I said anything else. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8)

What, "Know ye not that ye are THE temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1Cor 3:16-17)

To say anything else would be anti-semitic. You and I are Jews, for it is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29)

It seems obvious to most of us here that you're heading south into Juarez Mexico.

Both verses you've quoted from Romans have nothing to do with gentiles becoming jewish OR Israel. They are about Jews, specifically speaking of the remnant of Israel which gentiles are joined to, creating one new man. Not sure why you think that verse from Corinthians is relevant at all?

But, brother, here we are off thread again. My question was, "What is not symbolic?"

Until we can determine where the journey began, any interpretation you give is going to be in error so I see no point in going all the way to Venezuela with you.

One more time. The heading of this string is "interpreting the Book of Revelation" so let's start at the beginning. Is, in the first chapter, the stage not set for us to understand we are being show symbols. Eyes as flames of fire, feet as burnished brass, seven stars, seven candlesticks, etc. or am I still confused?