Tithe???

[Botz]

Boltz and Luft, Everything you guys are saying is right on. I tithe because it

[Fez]

Boltz and Luft, Everything you guys are saying is right on. I tithe because it

[enoob57]

Sorry if I came across wrong in my post. I did not begin tithing in the hope that I would reap financial reward at all. It was the last thing on my mind actually. The scripture I was following was the "all things work to the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose" from Romans.

Remember I was a "new" Christian at the time and I was asking myself if I was actually "loving" Him, in obeying His statures. I was asking my self if there was something I was missing, something that was "wrong" in my (very new), walk.

I believed, as I do now, that tithing, if not anything more than support for the church I attend, was a requirement of "obeying " Him.

I decided at the time that it was, and still believe so, not because OT scripture tells us to, but because it is a faith thing.

Perhaps my decision was rewarded by God, not because I tithed, but because I had the faith to believe the Romans scripture?

Blessings

Thanks for the clarification Fez...I guess the very terminology used in activating our finances in faith as Believers is part of the problem because people understand different things but use the same words.

That my Brother is a mouthful! Money is such a major concern for this system... everyone says life cannot be lived without it's concern yet a close examination of Christ's Life and you see it can! I have never spoke to anything but the spirit of this thread and that is

Acts 8:20

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money

KJV

this one thought alone in Peter's statement is this: that if people give unto God that which is worthless in obedience to their heart (Holy Spirit and Law) and God makes it eternal worth then they have been encouraged to gain something that they can give back unto The Glory of the Son in the future (all God's children win in this scenario)! Because everything we keep unto our own needs is coming to an end and it's keeping also... but that which is God's is eternal and He has clearly with great detail defined what is His and what is not... so in terminology- tithe and giving- one may split hairs but why go to all that effort in something such as a system that man, in sin, has designed in order to live as a self actualized being centered upon ones own needs instead of "it is more blessed to give than to receive"! So now that which was given as to teach righteousness of God as a 10% His return for His servants living in service to us is now written on our hearts and the percentage has increased to 100% for we see Jesus and we have His Life written down before us... Love Steven

[enoob57]

In the fullness of all things one must set down and give each item its full detail of understanding before setting it in it's proper placement in understanding...

If we fail in fullness of one detail then it may be placed out of order so that understanding is incorrect. Here is the glory of God His Spirit knows all! When we

broken and small for we have been made to see us as we are and to see as God Is (not in total yet!)... My brother in Christ Botz has so correctly identified the

problem as "terminologies" and one man uses a word and another the same yet with different understandings! It is not hard to understand the infinite of

God in this pin pointed path to God- "and the understanding"- and why we cannot get there on our own abilities...

---As to tithe and Law it is written on my heart and I cannot deny its existence yet I am not bound to its letter but to It's Life that which is in Christ Jesus and all

that I may have in my possession I am also aware of from Whom it has come... the next moment... around the turn of life, I meet me in a stranger

with need of what I have --- here is the Life that is in Christ--- I give to Him so His need is met! If I gave out of my excess then it is of little worth to me and God

but if I gave out my need so then Have I not become the stranger that I met and I am now made ready to do the same, as he, for the next to meet? Herein lies the

fire of God's testing the next I meet might not give to my need so that I suffer the need still; the strength to survive this is the understanding we are at that time in

the fellowship of His suffering and have this promise ahead of us around the next turn...

The Pathway began here at Pentecost

Acts 2:42-47

42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. 46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

NKJV

Individually in each life of the believer

1 Cor 1:4-9

4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

NKJV

Though many in the last days will try to persuade us differently to regard mammon before the things of God

1 Cor 10:20-22

20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?

NKJV

For our tithe to God is Ourselves (the new birth section) and not the things of this world

2 Cor 6:14-18

14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

"I will dwell in them

And walk among them.

I will be their God,

And they shall be My people."

17 Therefore

"Come out from among them

And be separate, says the Lord.

Do not touch what is unclean,

And I will receive you."

18 'I will be a Father to you,

And you shall be My sons and daughters,

Says the Lord Almighty."

NKJV

It is a tithe that roots itself in God

2 Cor 8:1-5

8 Moreover, brethren, we make known to you the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia: 2 that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded in the riches of their liberality. 3 For I bear witness that according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability, they were freely willing, 4 imploring us with much urgency that we would receive the gift and the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 5 And not only as we had hoped, but they first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us by the will of God.

NKJV

It looks to the needs of the poor whereby the giving can not be but for the giving

Gal 2:9-10

9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.

NKJV

Matt 5:46-48

46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

NKJV

It's giving is energized to the very presence of The Father by the Living Testimony of The Son

Eph 3:9-12

9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

NKJV

Everything I have testified to you thus far as to tithe

Phil 2:1-11

2 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

NKJV

This is where I want the the tithe of myself to go

Phil 3:10-11

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

NKJV

For I understand the tithe of God is that which is set apart unto Him and I, a sinner, in a world of sinners, "the miracle" that any of it could be given and made clean by God The Son so as to keep with Him eternally!! I am now the tithe unto God and the percentage is all my heart, my strength, my mind, my family, my body, my money, my ... I am sorry for this length... Love Steven

[Disciple_Of_Christ_FOREVER]

I tithe because I want to, not because I have to.

Tithing was something I started doing only after several years of being a Christian. In tbe beginning, I didn't tithe because of that thinking that "God does not need it". I do believe that the Holy Spirit convicts us, even in matters of tithing. But when I got into some financial difficulties, that's when I had the burden to tithe. It hurt, but by God's grace, that's when I learned the value of giving to God and letting Him multiply whatever is left. I tell you that in those times, not a single need was left unmet.

After that, I considered tithing a privilege, and one way to honor God and putting my faith in Him that He would provide all. He always did and He still does. I plan my spending based on whatever is left after tithing, not the other way around.

Some people don't tithe because they always think they won't have enough for their own needs. I think that is sad. Our great God provides.

Blessings....South

MAN GOD BLESS YOU FA REAL!!!!!

[Believer112]

Tithing was something I started doing only after several years of being a Christian.

Me too! I didn

[Botz]

This is where I want the the tithe of myself to go

Phil 3:10-11

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

NKJV

For I understand the tithe of God is that which is set apart unto Him and I, a sinner, in a world of sinners, "the miracle" that any of it could be given and made clean by God The Son so as to keep with Him eternally!! I am now the tithe unto God and the percentage is all my heart, my strength, my mind, my family, my body, my money, my ... I am sorry for this length... Love Steven

I have read all that you posted Steven, and I think in what you write you demonstrates an aspect of giving in which we as individuals are sold out to G-d...bond-servants, and it is from that 'position' that everything we do comes from, including what we do with our finances.

It is our heart that G-d is concerned with, and if He has 'won' that, then what comes forth from it will be clothed in righteousness, truth and faith, and He has free access to us, 'maleable clay in the Potter's hands' ready to receive revelation as the eyes of our understanding are opened.

I think this demonstrates the active difference between living under the Law, and living in the Kingdom of G-d, the latter demands the former compels...what is written on tablets of stone is different from what is written on tablets of flesh...and yet tithes and offerings as it is collectively taught in many places, has more to do with Law, because the Law and aspects of the Law are used to justify its position and motivate our response, even under the guise of New Covenant teaching that purports to use the dynamic of 'sowing and reaping', but generally rips it from context and uses it to spearhead a doctrine that is rife with Scripture but lacks cohesion, and to my mind, falls like Icarus when closely scrutinized by the searing light of G-ds Spirit.

Still, in plain words...people prefer the familiar and we are all guilty of preferring our various comfort zones...but I believe there is an aspect of hungering and thirsting after righteousness that wants above all to lay hold of G-d, and draw from the well of Life and will not be content with bland, un-nutritious dogma that seeks to surreptitiously impose a guilt trip onto every aspect of our giving and dangle the carrot of financial reward...it really shouldn't be this way.

1Tim 6:6...But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment.

[Botz]

I have been thinking about the free will thing quite a bit recently, and I agree with what you propose above. Technically, if we truly walk in the Spirit, free will is no longer a concept, if you get my drift. There is no need for free will if one is really free and lives under total Grace. Free will becomes you in a way, and the choices one makes are not an expression of free will, but of living the Word. The free will to make the choice has been made, and is no longer necessary.

Hope I am getting my idea across because I am finding difficulty in expressing it.

I got your drift bro...something I touched on was sparking something in you that G-d is touching...you are an articulate guy (loved your testimony) and you are probably having difficulty expressing what you want to say because G-d hasn't formed it in your heart yet, but I am sure when it is fully formed you will have no trouble....free-will is living for Messiah...we are not our own, we have been brought with a price, etc etc...

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

[Fez]

I have been thinking about the free will thing quite a bit recently, and I agree with what you propose above. Technically, if we truly walk in the Spirit, free will is no longer a concept, if you get my drift. There is no need for free will if one is really free and lives under total Grace. Free will becomes you in a way, and the choices one makes are not an expression of free will, but of living the Word. The free will to make the choice has been made, and is no longer necessary.

Hope I am getting my idea across because I am finding difficulty in expressing it.

I got your drift bro...something I touched on was sparking something in you that G-d is touching...you are an articulate guy (loved your testimony) and you are probably having difficulty expressing what you want to say because G-d hasn't formed it in your heart yet, but I am sure when it is fully formed you will have no trouble....free-will is living for Messiah...we are not our own, we have been brought with a price, etc etc...

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Now I have got to thinking about the difference between "Your will be done", and free will. Where's the juxtaposition between the two? Is there one?

[mizzdy]

I have been thinking about the free will thing quite a bit recently, and I agree with what you propose above. Technically, if we truly walk in the Spirit, free will is no longer a concept, if you get my drift. There is no need for free will if one is really free and lives under total Grace. Free will becomes you in a way, and the choices one makes are not an expression of free will, but of living the Word. The free will to make the choice has been made, and is no longer necessary.

Hope I am getting my idea across because I am finding difficulty in expressing it.

I got your drift bro...something I touched on was sparking something in you that G-d is touching...you are an articulate guy (loved your testimony) and you are probably having difficulty expressing what you want to say because G-d hasn't formed it in your heart yet, but I am sure when it is fully formed you will have no trouble....free-will is living for Messiah...we are not our own, we have been brought with a price, etc etc...

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Now I have got to thinking about the difference between "Your will be done", and free will. Where's the juxtaposition between the two? Is there one?

I like the way the CJB kinda makes things sometimes easier to understand,

14 For the Messiah's love has hold of us, because we are convinced that one man died on behalf of all mankind (which implies that all mankind was already dead), 15 and that he died on behalf of all in order that those who live should not live any longer for themselves but for the one who on their behalf died and was raised.

When thinking about Gods will I think about what scriptures that give us glimpses of what the angels or the elders are saying and doing, praising His name, serving Him, walking in His instructions, just doing what God wants and not what we want. Oh so hard to do sometimes!! Free will is the choice to accept Him and follow Him in all the ways He tells us. In a rabbinical (Akiva) writing the idea of freewill is seen as "Everything is foreseen, but freedom of choice is given" (Avot 3:15) God may know what we will do and it may be His will we 'do something' but it is up to us to follow that small voice that tells us to do it. Thats mainly where we all fail isn't it we tend to put our own 'voice' to the mix.