Is once saved always saved?

[shammah]

Even the devils believe but they do not do his will! To find your life you must be willing to loose it for christs sake! If you love mother ,father, sister ,or brother , or even your own life more than Christ ;you are not worthy of the Kingdom! Once you have tasted the gifts , and been made partakers of the holy ghost , if they should fall away again, they put the Son of God to shame ,crucifying Him afresh! For if we willingly sin, after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins!

We are called not only to believe on His name, but to suffer for his sake. For if ye live after the flesh,ye shall die,but if ye through the spirit do mortify the deeds of the body ye shall live! Faith without works is dead; so we must overcome the flesh by walking in the spirit, or death and condemnation remains! There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO, walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit!

The Parable of the seeds show that the first man of stoney ground didn't understand, and the wicked one took it away. But the second and third men recieved the word, one fell away because of persecution, and the other because of the riches and cares of this world! Men always have choices to fall away even when they believe the word and confess the Messiah, they still have free will ; but thet can't be taken by the devil against their will. This is what it means when it says to the effect He will not lose even one, no one can take a child of God against his will ;but they leave because they are drawn away by their own lusts, or fall away because they love this life, or by persecutions.

You can always tell a good tree because of it's fruit, and all Christians are to bare the fruits of righteousness, and keep unspotted from the world.

To say that we have to know greek to find the true meaning, is as to say that the Lord isn't able to preserve His word, and if that is so we must trust linguist, and it puts doubt on the word. The Spirit in me confesses that the KJV has been preserved and is the Logos, and Rhema, of God! The word is also writen upon our hearts, and bares witness to the truth ; All praise honor and glory to Jesus Christ, the word made flesh; Shammah-2.

[Guest morejesus]

Thank you all so much for your thoghts and espically for the scriptures.

(((((((((((worthy bothers and sisters in christ))))))))) Love you all.

[godrulz]

Early church fathers along with the Greek New Testament teach a once saved always saved belief. I don't know of one person who is able to read the New Testament in Greek that believes we can lose our salvation. It is so utterly clear in the original language.

This is an assumption that is not defensible. Many Greek scholars can be found to support either side.

[dgolvach]

You can always tell a good tree because of it's fruit, and all Christians are to bare the fruits of righteousness, and keep unspotted from the world.

Shammah,

You mean to tell me you are now with out spots(SIN)?

[shammah]

In the parable of the seeds , the soul on stoney ground didn't recieve the word but the enemy stold it away. But the other two seeds recieved the word and believed but because of the riches , lusts, tempations, persecutions, and loving the world things, and themselves more than God, they fell away. God will not let one be plucked from His hand, but people will never be forced to continue on with him; many are called but few are chosen! Once one has tasted of the good word and partaken of the Holy-Spirit, if he should then turn back , he puts Christ to an open shame, crucifying the Lord afresh. For if we sin willingly after we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. (that is if we live that way and continue unrepentant). By their fruits you shall know them.Even the devils believe and tremble, faith without works is a dead faith. A true Christian loves his Lord more than mother, father, sister, or brother, even more than his own life; for those who try to save their lives will loose it , but those who loose their lives for My Sake will find it.

I believe the Lord is able and has given us His word in the KJV bible, and that if we depended on greek schoolars for our information, than He has neglected the greater part of His people. The Spirit in me bares witness that God has preserved his word and His Logos, His Rhema, is also writen in our hearts and agree's with thre writen word. The way is narrow, each one must bare his cross and follow Him, many are called but few are chosen, and follow to endure to the end. If they persecuted Him they will persecute his own, if the churches taught this they wouldn't need building projects. Agape in Yah Shua ; Shammah-2.

[shammah]

woops, I thought I had lost my post so I posted a similar one; but I was just on the wrong page sorry! I wish there was once save always saved, but the heart of man is so decietful; one really has to mature to a point were the love of God becomes so real to him that the things and even our most cherished love ones, can't keep us from knowing and serving our Lord with all our hearts, because He has become our all in all, and more real, and so fill with his love, that everything else has paled in comparison! Shammah-2.

[Guest TLCveritas]

LadyC

Perhaps I am just saying stuff you already know, but just incase Freedom of choice does not mean we can do whatever we want to do. There are limits to our free will LadyC. We are bond servants of Christ. We are indebted to HIM. HE paid our debt... we owe HIM our obedience. Again Galatains 5 is really a wonderful chapter to see how we are to WALK.

And speaking of the Spiritual WALK... it's called a WALK because we have a long journey ahead... there isn't a lear jet to heaven, there isn't any drive-through window... it's the long way on foot or no way. The road is dirt, and it's full of large rocks to overcome and mountains and valleys and a desert or two. IF you are on the highway to heaven... get off.. it's the wrong road For we know that the road is narrow.

Excellent verse on repentance is

Psalm 51:1-4

Have mercy unon me, O God,

According to Your lovingkindness;

According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,

Blot out my transgressions.

Wash me throughly from my iniquity,

And cleanse me from my sin.

For I acknowledge my transgressions,

And my sin is always before me.

Against You, You only, have i sinned,

And done this evil in Your sight -

That You may be found just when You speak,

And blameless when You judge.

And final thoughts on the Eternal Security Issue..

If my salvation is not a settles issue, how can I be anxioius for nothing ?

(Phil 4:6)

Which sins were forgiven when Christ died? And If the sins commited after becoming a christian can annul my relationship with the Savior, what sins were not covered at Calvary...

Either I am forgiven or I am not. Yet again when Jesus said to the prostitue that was about to be stoned... Your sins are forgiven... the next part of that verse is often left out.. ."GO AND SIN NO MORE." I believe she turned from the lifestyle of prostitution that day.

Sometimes... LadyC. it takes MORE than human will power to over come a sin, sometimes it take divine intervention of the Holy Spirit. And some times on our Spiritual Walk we do sin... (my frequent sin is a curse word that slips out when I am driving or angry and if I don't catch myself... MY KIDS or my hubby will tell me about it!!! But I think if we read Gal 5 we are to stand fast in the liberty .. and not get caught up in the yoke of bondage again. Either you are led by the Spirit or led by the flesh. One needs to look at consistancy also ... which are you characterized by... living a life of the Spirit or living a life of the flesh. I am guessing your characterized by living the life of the Spirit... and you have the fruit of the spirit to show that God is at work in your life... you have Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Meekness, and self control.

And there is the area of faith... if good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone. And I think it implys that salvation is maintianed by good works ( or not sinning) and that makes the daily burden of our salvation back upon ourself.. and we are under a yoke of sin again.

And if you read my post on works you know I think that what we do in this life will matter for eternity... (1 Cor 3:8-15) but works arn't to be confused with salvation.

OK OK OK... I have rambled enough for one night. :x:

[shammah]

I mean what Paul said " true religion is this, to take care of the widows, poor and fatherless, and to keep yourself unspotted from the world" Be Holy even as I'm Holy; this is an act of commitment and devotion, and if we do sin and repent, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteuosness, but we are not to use grace as a licience to sin. Also a personal sin like selfishness, or knowing what is right and not doing it , is differant that corrousing, and falling back into the things of the world , our former lives without God; they think it strange you no longer join in with them.

We are not perfect, but we should be running in that race and not looking back!

Agape; Shammah-2.

[gypc]

Heb10:26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

I woke up with this verse on my mind. Yesterday a man at work came up to me and ask to be reborn again. I told him that if he's already known God and back slidden then just ask God to forgive you and repent of your sins.

I would say 95% of all the people I have told about Christ at work tell me they are saved yet live very sinful lives. I have done also.

It;s hard to witness to people who already believe they are saved.

So I thought about this verse: Notice it says "after we have received the knowledge of the truth,"

I don't think we have really recieved the knowledge of the truth. What I mean is we have to the point of recieving Jesus as Lord but I think most doctrine has been watered down so much that people really don't know what they believe.

I have been a christian for over 20 years yet I would back slide then come back and again.......I felt my life was one big roller coaster. Then I really studied what I've been taught over the years and found much of it was false.

So now instead of walking around with the weight of false teaching, I'm learning how to deny myself, pick up my cross and follow him. I feel I'm finally getting the "knowledge of the truth"

The thing is, there are so many winds of doctrine floating around out there, if we truly seek God, he will reveal his word to us. That is if we are willing to lay down teaching that are in contridiction to his word.

Hwy, not that I've have it down......no, I feel very humbled before God about his word and I'm taking it one day at a time.

As far as OSAS, I think we need to truly come to the knowledge of Christ about our own salvation 1st.

In his love,

Brian

[dwinkjr]

morejesus,

Let me offer a bit of advice.

1. The doctrine Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) has been kicked to death on this board.

2. I would be careful relying on anecdotal evidence as a foundation for any belief. Any argument that begins with, "I knew this guy one time who....." is inherently a very weak basis for belief. The problem is that you can never know for certain what is in another person's heart. Most people do not know what is in their own hearts. Who can say when the "act" of salvation occurs? For some, it happens in an instant of time for others it is a much longer process.

3. Unfortunately, this is one doctrine where Scripture is not completely clear. Just like divine election the Bible contains both doctrines. It is a paradox. There are simply some issues for which human reason falters. God chooses those who are saved. But we have free will to choose or reject salvation. God keeps and will not lose those He chooses. Yet we must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling." Salvation is a gift secured by faith and yet involves an act of human will. Ephesians 2:8,9 even makes our "faith" a gift that is divinely provided. The entire process of regeneration and santification is a marvelous miracle beyond our complete understanding.

4. There are doctrines that define Mere Christianity and we must be clear and orthodox on those. For example, the deity of Christ. Others, like baptism and OSAS are open to some questioning. There are dedicated, sincere men of God who hold completely opposite views on these marginal doctrines. We must be civil and loving on these few marginal doctrines where so many Christians disagree.

There is much important work to be done for the Kingdom. Arguments about OSAS is unfortunately not on that agenda.

- Steve

I Must second this entire post on this one...

God Bless,

Dave