Babylon the Great???

[nebula]

There is no Jew nor gentile.

And yet those who are called "Jews" are targeted for special criticism.

(i.e. "They are antichrist.")

Why is that?

[goldust59]

I think you guys should study up on Romans 11. God made a covenant with Israel and fully intends it come to pass.

But this is off topic of this thread.

It is the same covenant for EVERYONE. And that covenant applied also to those Isrealites Paul refers to in Romans 11.

Some of them accepted Christ and will enter the Kingdom (The Elect). Most were blinded.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

It's got nothing to do with the people who call themselves 'Jews' today.

Who do you think Isreal refers to today? Is it all Jews? Or only those within the borders of National isreal? Or any Jew in the world who has genealogy to ancient Hebrews? Or what?

GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS!

The true Isreal of God today is the Church of Christ.

Yes the Church of Christ is Israel (spiritual) but I also believe there are descendants of Abraham still living that will receive the fulfillment of the promise God made to him.

"As concerning the gospel, they(Jews) are enemies for your(Gentiles) sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' (Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob) sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

For as you in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief :

Even so have these also now not believed , that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God has concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:28-32

[goldust59]

Yes the Church of Christ is Israel (spiritual)

Good. I'm glad there are some here who understand that.

but I also believe there are descendants of Abraham still living that will receive the fulfillment of the promise God made to him.

Perfectly reasonable assumption. The promise is everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven and the way there is by Jesus Christ. So....they still need to be part of Spiritual Isreal to get in.

Same Same. One covenant. One baptism.

"As concerning the gospel, they(Jews) are enemies for your(Gentiles) sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' (Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob) sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

For as you in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief :

Even so have these also now not believed , that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God has concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:28-32

Everyone better press into the New Covenant, because the Old one has GONE.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Yes, the old covenant that was made with the children of Israel when they were brought out of Egypt is over because Jesus came and made a new covenant. However, I do not consider that old covenant to be the same as the promise to Abraham.

Reading further in Hebrews 8, I see that God includes "the house of Israel" in the new.

[other one]

Jerusalem rules the nations through lending money. They all drink of her cup.

Prophecy tells us who will rule many nations. It is a blessing of God to Israel, and it even describes how they will rule over the nations. They rule by lending money to the nations.

Deuteronomy 15:6 For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee.

Deuteronomy 28:12 "... and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow."

Of course, the harlot woman rules the kings of the earth.

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The great harlot lends money to the nations to control them. This is the opposite of how a harlot operates; normally a harlot receives money from her lovers. Ezekiel 16:33 describes how Jerusalem plays the harlot, oddly enough, by giving money to her lovers, which is "contrary" to how other women commit whoredoms:::>

Eze 16:31 In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;

Eze 16:32 But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!

Eze 16:33 They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.

Eze 16:34 And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.

Does the fact that the woman lends money to the nations prove that she rules them? Yes! Deuteronomy 15:6 clearly shows that by lending money, she rules the nations. Further proof that the lender rules over the borrower.

Proverbs 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

Implications of this proof: If you study the role of gold in history, and the history of money, you will find that the international moneylenders control the nations through lending money to them, and that a portion of these bankers have a certain tie to Jerusalem.

This is not a racist view, nor is it a condemnation of Jewish people, nor of the nation of Israel, but rather, it is merely the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. In fact, this interpretation cannot and is not a judgment against the Jewish people, because the common people do not lend to the nations or kings of the earth.

In 2010, the literal city does not fit the prophecy, and the 7th beast riden by the harlot has not yet come into being. And the prophecy is not about a location per se; it's about a people in a location. The literal city of Jerusalem may not be destroyed, but the people who will practice the money lending to control the future world government will operate out of Jerusalem in the future, and they will be destroyed.

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws."

-Mayer Amschel Rothschild

1st Thess 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil...

http://www.bibleprop...org/rev1718.htm

Ah, so you're into the Global Jewish Banker thing.....

[goldust59]

Genesis17:7 "And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an EVERLASTING covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee." ---God to Abraham

[goldust59]

Genesis17:7 "And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an EVERLASTING covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee." ---God to Abraham

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. -- Paul to us.

Yes, those that are in Christ are Abraham's seed, but natural Israel can't be discounted.

Romans 11:25-27 For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved : as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this my covenant with them, when I shall take away their sins.

[goldust59]

Yes, those that are in Christ are Abraham's seed, but natural Israel can't be discounted.

Romans 11:25-27 For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved : as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this my covenant with them, when I shall take away their sins.

Who is discounting 'natural isreal' (whatever that is??)

EVERYONE gets the same deal, whatever their Earthly nationality, genealogy, colour, creed or shoe size.

The fullness of the gentiles came in at the spreading of the Gospel to all nations. WE are Isreal. The Church. Everyone one who wants to accept Christ as Saviour is invited to join the Isreal of God and be heirs to the promise. There is no plan B. Not for the nation state of isreal, or world Jewry or anyone else. There is ONE covenant open to ALL.

If "all Israel shall be saved" refers to any kind of connection to God's original chosen people, Jacob (who are dispersed all over the world), GREAT....I think thats fantastic, but it has absolutley no bearing on HOW they are to be redeemed. Through Christ and the New Covenant.

It has got ZILCH to do with the inhabitants of the land we now call the nation state of isreal....OR the land itself.

There is nothing else I will say here but that I see some things differently than you.

Sorry to the OP for the hijack of the thread.

[nebula]

And yet those who are called "Jews" are targeted for special criticism.

(i.e. "They are antichrist.")

Why is that?

Who targets them for special criticism?

ANY religious system that fails to confess Jesus, Son of God, who came in the flesh is the Messiah........is devacto ANTICHRIST.

Whether they be Jew, Gentile, Buddhist, Muslim or Martian.

I have never heard anyone declare "antichrist" when referring to any other group but the Jews.

[nebula]

Jerusalem rules the nations through lending money. They all drink of her cup.

China has more lending power control than Jerusalem has ever had.

[nebula]

Zech. 12

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. 3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces , though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. . . .

8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced , and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn , every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; 13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14 All the families that remain , every family apart, and their wives apart.

The "Church" has never been described in terms of the tribes like this.

The prophecy can only be fulfilled if there are non-believing Jews inhabiting Jerusalem.

They will know Jesus when He saves them, and mourn because they will realize they have been rejecting their Messiah this whole time and had not understood His redemption.