God's Soverenty

[childeye]

Believer112,

You seem to be taking scripture out of context. Now I'm possibly going to disturb you but the context I speak of the entire Bible. And let me go further so that you can understand my stance, the first 39 books of what we know as the Bible are the Bible and the following 27 are the very best Life Application Commentary ever written. This Bible, as defined by what I have just stated is the Bible Jesus quoted and commented on as is the case with Paul and all the other writers of the New Testament.

This is all true and is a lesson of how we define our terms is key in understanding and being understood. Well done, however I am guilty, I do call the New Testament the bible and sometimes even refer to it as scripture which as you pointed out is error. Thank you or rather thank God for you.

[childeye]

If God was omnicausal in His control, there would not be heinous evil. God can be in control without being all-controlling. Free will must be part of a credible theodicy (problem of evil) or we impugn His character and ways. Those who want a deterministic crutch (suited to Islam, B.F. Skinner, etc., not biblical Christianity) underestimate the omnicompetence of God who rules without micromanaging puppets (macromanages free moral agents, a condition of love and relationship).

Dear Godrulz, please forgive my earlier tone. Had I understood what you are facing I would have been of a different approach. Now I understand that you have an anger at what has manifested in your life and do not consider it prudent to point it at God. You seek healing. No man such as myself can carry your burden for if I could I would. Shall I pray what has befallen you will instead come upon me? I suspect you would decline the offer because you would not wish your cross on someone else. If I am right, I do believe you have the strength to carry it, even as Christ carried his. Jesus saw a woman weeping at his plight and said, weep for yourselves, for if this is what they do to the King, what do you suppose they will do to the servants. Now people here at this forum are not saying God did it to you as it may sound. Please read my post about Adam and Eve above, tell me if you understand my point. My point is the destroyers power against us comes from our own mouth. This destroyer passes over all those houses whose entrances are marked by the blood of the lamb. Pray to God for forgiveness for any words spoken in judgment against others and do not hold condemnation towards anyone as if they could not sin if they only tried. I will pray for you and your family as best as I know how. Love is eternal, do not give up. Set your heart to accept the worst of your fears and yet praise God, but hope for the best, for God is able to heal.

[JCISGD]

In the last days MANY will heed seducing spirits, of which the denial of NT as scripture is one of them.

[th1bill]

In the last days MANY will heed seducing spirits, of which the denial of NT as scripture is one of them.

Now this one is indeed interesting! From your screen name it is implied that we are to understand that Jesus is God and you have made a completely open ended accusation with no scripture address to prove your accusation. On top of that instead of demonstrating that Jesus, the Christ is important you have used the JC and the boys trash and abbreviated His status as God also... all the while seeking to impugn what I have stated in the tradition of the world with open ended accusations that sound good but lack any real substance. When you boil it all down to it's base product I have acknowledged the Bible that Jesus inspired men to write and have sought to teach other how to get a grip on the two Testaments of our Bible today.

And in the manner of Satan and the lost man, follower of Satan, you have an issue with that?

[childeye]

In the last days MANY will heed seducing spirits, of which the denial of NT as scripture is one of them.

I believe you may be referring to me. I love "the bible" since I don't know what else to call it. Wherein someone has felt moved to correct me, whose sincere correction is appreciated if it be for the sake of peace and agreement in Christ. I love both the New and Old Testament, for therein lies the testimony to the Word of God. Let us not bicker about what we call this collection of books inspired of God. Peace be unto you and God's blessing be upon your house.

[hr.jr.]

Gen_14:18-20; Gen_14:22; Gen_24:3; Exo_8:22; Exo_9:29; Exo_15:18; Exo_18:11; Num_27:16; Deu_2:19; Deu_4:39; Deu_10:14; Deu_10:17; Exo_19:5; Deu_32:8; Deu_32:39; Deu_32:41-43; Jos_2:11; Jos_3:11; 1Sa_2:6-8; 2Ki_19:15; 1Ch_29:11-12; 2Ch_20:6; Neh_9:6; Job_9:12; Job_12:9-10; Job_12:16-17; Job_25:2; Job_33:13; Job_34:13; Job_34:24; Job_34:33; Job 36:1-33; Job_41:11; Psa_10:16; Psa_22:28-29; Psa_24:1; Psa_24:10; 1Co_10:26; Psa_29:10; Psa_44:4; Psa_47:2-3; Psa_47:7-8; Psa_50:10-12; Psa_59:13; Psa_65:5; Psa_66:7; Psa_67:4; Psa_74:12; Psa_75:6-7; Psa_76:11-12; Psa_82:1; Psa_82:8; Psa_83:18; Psa_89:11; Psa_89:18; Psa_93:1-2; Psa_95:3-5; Psa_96:10; Psa_97:1-2; Psa_97:5; Psa_97:9; Psa_98:6; Psa_99:1; Psa_103:19; Psa_105:7; Psa_113:4; Psa_115:3; Psa_115:16; Psa_135:5-6; Psa_136:2-3; Psa_145:11-13; Psa_146:10; Isa_52:7; Ecc_9:1; Isa_24:23; Isa_33:22; Isa_37:16; Isa_40:22-23; Isa_43:15; Isa_44:6; Isa_45:7; Isa_45:23; Isa_54:5; Jer_10:10; Jer 18:1-23; Jer_27:5-7; Jer_32:27-28; Lam_3:37-38; Lam_5:19; Eze_16:50; Eze_17:24; Eze_18:4; Dan_2:20-21; Dan_2:47; Dan_4:3; Dan_4:17; Dan_4:25; Dan_4:34-35; Dan_4:37; Dan_5:18; Dan_5:26-28; Dan_6:26; Mic_4:7; Mic_4:13; Hag_2:8; Mal_1:14; Mat_6:10; Mat_6:13; Mat_11:25; Luk_10:21; Mat_20:15; Luk_1:53; Joh_10:29; Joh_19:11; Act_17:24-26; Rom_9:19; Rom_14:11; Eph_4:6; 1Ti_6:15-16; Heb_1:3; Jam_4:12; Rev_1:6; Rev_4:11; Rev_11:4; Rev_11:13; Rev_11:17; Rev_19:6(Naves Topical)

There are a variety of pious and perfectly useless "opinions

[childeye]

name='hr.jr.' timestamp='1300663279' post='1660665']

Bill, God is soverign. That does not mean He can do anything. That does not mean that everything that happens is the perfect will of God. God plainly tells us that it is not His will than any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Does that happen? No! God made covenant with man. God can not lie. God can not, nor does He even desire to break covenant with man. God chose to give man free will. When He gave us this free will, He gave us a degree of control. He gave us authority and He willingly gave up authority.

I agree with everything you say, though I view freewill differently than you. It is not God's will we sin. Nonetheless, He performs all things according to His will. You will no doubt count this as double speak, please allow me to explain. The fact is ignorance exists because creation is an antecedent event, it comes after the creator. The creation made aware and sentient is at first subjective in view, just as a child views all things as if he or she is the center of the universe. The child will learn that God is at the center of all things. Sin from this objective point of view is a product of circumstance, which God in his forknowledge before He created anything, was aware would happen and prepared a way to eliminate it through the blood of Christ. Sin began in heaven with Satan who is the Father of sin. therefore Christ comes to destroy the works of Satan.

[th1bill]

Bill, God is soverign. That does not mean He can do anything. That does not mean that everything that happens is the perfect will of God. God plainly tells us that it is not His will than any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Does that happen? No! God made covenant with man. God can not lie. God can not, nor does He even desire to break covenant with man. God chose to give man free will. When He gave us this free will, He gave us a degree of control. He gave us authority and He willingly gave up authority.

I have said this so many times I sound like a broken record but you have just made, here, an open ended charge that is unsupported by scripture. I might not even choose to dispute your point but to follow the world that is driven by their god, Satan and not follow Christian manors and stewardship is unacceptable. I have given a great deal of scripture to make my point and you offer nothing more than empty words off the top of your head, very bad form.

[hr.jr.]

Bill, God is soverign. That does not mean He can do anything. That does not mean that everything that happens is the perfect will of God. God plainly tells us that it is not His will than any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Does that happen? No! God made covenant with man. God can not lie. God can not, nor does He even desire to break covenant with man. God chose to give man free will. When He gave us this free will, He gave us a degree of control. He gave us authority and He willingly gave up authority.

I have said this so many times I sound like a broken record but you have just made, here, an open ended charge that is unsupported by scripture. I might not even choose to dispute your point but to follow the world that is driven by their god, Satan and not follow Christian manors and stewardship is unacceptable. I have given a great deal of scripture to make my point and you offer nothing more than empty words off the top of your head, very bad form.

No point in getting upset. We can have a debate without getting all worked up. First of all, you cut and pasted from Nave's topical. You did not exactly spend 1,000 hours developing a great hermenutical thesis on soverignty.

You posted a list of scripture references of which I believe you have taken out of context. I posted one scripture that soundly defeats your interpretation of the entire soup of scriptures you mixed together and poured out. One thing you might learn in studying Theology is that you base doctrine on totality of scripture, not on individual passages. It is quite plain from the totality of scripture that God has willingly given up much of His authority on this earth to man. That theme runs clearly from Genesis, where God first gave authority to man, to Revelation the book in which He again returns to take all authority back to Himself. If you apply the second leg of Theology which is know as "Natural Theology," you will further observe that God is not ruling this Earth with an Iron fist. You will actually observe that quite the opposite is true.

You must take into account that God has a perfect will, but He allows many things to happen that are in no way in His perfect will.

You say I use "very bad form." I would contend that posting a concordance, as you did, is far worse form.

There comes a point in time that we must apply just a touch of common sense into our interpretation of The Word.

Was it God's will that Satan Rebel?

Was it God's will that Adam Sin?

Was it God's will that man attempt to build the Tower of Babel?

Was it God's will that the entire Earth save Noah and his family fall into sin so badly there was no hope to redeem them?

Is it God's will that any man go to Hell?

Was the holocaust God's will?

Was the rapes and murdeers performed by Ted Bundy God's will?

None of the above were God's will. They are all examples of man exercising his own free will.

[th1bill]

Bill, God is soverign. That does not mean He can do anything. That does not mean that everything that happens is the perfect will of God. God plainly tells us that it is not His will than any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Does that happen? No! God made covenant with man. God can not lie. God can not, nor does He even desire to break covenant with man. God chose to give man free will. When He gave us this free will, He gave us a degree of control. He gave us authority and He willingly gave up authority.

I have said this so many times I sound like a broken record but you have just made, here, an open ended charge that is unsupported by scripture. I might not even choose to dispute your point but to follow the world that is driven by their god, Satan and not follow Christian manors and stewardship is unacceptable. I have given a great deal of scripture to make my point and you offer nothing more than empty words off the top of your head, very bad form.

No point in getting upset. We can have a debate without getting all worked up. First of all, you cut and pasted from Nave's topical. You did not exactly spend 1,000 hours developing a great hermenutical thesis on soverignty.

You posted a list of scripture references of which I believe you have taken out of context. I posted one scripture that soundly defeats your interpretation of the entire soup of scriptures you mixed together and poured out. One thing you might learn in studying Theology is that you base doctrine on totality of scripture, not on individual passages. It is quite plain from the totality of scripture that God has willingly given up much of His authority on this earth to man. That theme runs clearly from Genesis, where God first gave authority to man, to Revelation the book in which He again returns to take all authority back to Himself. If you apply the second leg of Theology which is know as "Natural Theology," you will further observe that God is not ruling this Earth with an Iron fist. You will actually observe that quite the opposite is true.

You must take into account that God has a perfect will, but He allows many things to happen that are in no way in His perfect will.

You say I use "very bad form." I would contend that posting a concordance, as you did, is far worse form.

There comes a point in time that we must apply just a touch of common sense into our interpretation of The Word.

Was it God's will that Satan Rebel?

Was it God's will that Adam Sin?

Was it God's will that man attempt to build the Tower of Babel?

Was it God's will that the entire Earth save Noah and his family fall into sin so badly there was no hope to redeem them?

Is it God's will that any man go to Hell?

Was the holocaust God's will?

Was the rapes and murdeers performed by Ted Bundy God's will?

None of the above were God's will. They are all examples of man exercising his own free will.

I wasn't upset and I'm not upset but you are still speaking of the top of your head and that is absolutely how heresy begins. So I'm left to believe that you are unable to use your Bible. All of what you have said to this point is pointless because you have pointed nobody to the Word of God. Up to this point you are trying, in vain, to teach a Bible Teacher.