Reason with me on this...

[enoob57]

Repentance is a gift from God

Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

NKJV

2 Tim 2:25-26

25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

NKJV

The Holy Spirit is the deliver of 'within our being'

Zech 12:10

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

NKJV

Is a necessary component in conviction of sin

1 Kings 8:38-40

38 whatever prayer, whatever supplication is made by anyone, or by all Your people Israel, when each one knows the plague of his own heart, and spreads out his hands toward this temple: 39 then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive, and act, and give to everyone according to all his ways, whose heart You know (for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men), 40 that they may fear You all the days that they live in the land which You gave to our fathers.

NKJV

Acts 2:37-39

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

NKJV

A gift is not worked for but a gift... Choice is also a gift of God given to us throughout Scripture seen in the very beginning...

Here is my belief in all this:

In the beginning choice- we chose wrong in Adam= when we arrive from childhood and one day know that we should not do

something and for whatever reason of reward we do that which we know we shouldn't we have agreed with Adam's choice

and have joined him in sin. This all men do because we have the sin nature!

Sin is like that of leaven when it is first entered it takes time for the whole lump to become leavened. As that time passes from

the first accountability more and more we are hardened to sin and it's wrongness (ungodliness)

Rom chapter 1

and the least

we see the need of Jesus Christ toward redeeming us from that sin! Choice become less and less and the more and more

we are bound in sin as the lies of satan enslave us!

Sovereignty and freewill are great truths taught in Scripture and Godly men wait upon God to understand How they complement

and uphold the unity in God and man for the eternities in Christ Jesus. For me they keep me as a small child unable to reason

their great truths in the smallness of my mind... I know I am also held to my choice

Rom chapter 1

as all men and

God has elected and predestined in His perfect choice.

When I was given sight of the need of Jesus Christ I also saw that all of what I was had no value not even my choice for it was

self centered and desired only the escape from the burning hell of those who reject His Son Jesus Christ! For me this is the

miracle of all miracles how that a selfish, self centered, being could cry out to be saved from all that He is and God should Hear!

I do understand- now- however for the needful death of that man and the life of the new one (now) is as different as darkness

and light! All of what I am centers upon Christ and the Holy Spirit within... They have become the all in all of life and I am being

lost in Their Godly manner of Being unto The Father. I am in Love with my God and Savior Jesus Christ and am caring less for the

thought of self more every passing day! I believe I understand the clay pot that I am... for what has been put within is not my own

but with the bindings of Grace I may call it mine for all eternity... Love Steven

Okay have at me!!! come and get it just don't eat my shoes

[MorningGlory]

Repentance is a gift from God

Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

NKJV

2 Tim 2:25-26

25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

NKJV

The Holy Spirit is the deliver of 'within our being'

Zech 12:10

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

NKJV

Is a necessary component in conviction of sin

1 Kings 8:38-40

38 whatever prayer, whatever supplication is made by anyone, or by all Your people Israel, when each one knows the plague of his own heart, and spreads out his hands toward this temple: 39 then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive, and act, and give to everyone according to all his ways, whose heart You know (for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men), 40 that they may fear You all the days that they live in the land which You gave to our fathers.

NKJV

Acts 2:37-39

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

NKJV

A gift is not worked for but a gift... Choice is also a gift of God given to us throughout Scripture seen in the very beginning...

Here is my belief in all this:

In the beginning choice- we chose wrong in Adam= when we arrive from childhood and one day know that we should not do

something and for whatever reason of reward we do that which we know we shouldn't we have agreed with Adam's choice

and have joined him in sin. This all men do because we have the sin nature!

Sin is like that of leaven when it is first entered it takes time for the whole lump to become leavened. As that time passes from

the first accountability more and more we are hardened to sin and it's wrongness (ungodliness)

Rom chapter 1

and the least

we see the need of Jesus Christ toward redeeming us from that sin! Choice become less and less and the more and more

we are bound in sin as the lies of satan enslave us!

Sovereignty and freewill are great truths taught in Scripture and Godly men wait upon God to understand How they complement

and uphold the unity in God and man for the eternities in Christ Jesus. For me they keep me as a small child unable to reason

their great truths in the smallness of my mind... I know I am also held to my choice

Rom chapter 1

as all men and

God has elected and predestined in His perfect choice.

When I was given sight of the need of Jesus Christ I also saw that all of what I was had no value not even my choice for it was

self centered and desired only the escape from the burning hell of those who reject His Son Jesus Christ! For me this is the

miracle of all miracles how that a selfish, self centered, being could cry out to be saved from all that He is and God should Hear!

I do understand- now- however for the needful death of that man and the life of the new one (now) is as different as darkness

and light! All of what I am centers upon Christ and the Holy Spirit within... They have become the all in all of life and I am being

lost in their Godly manner of Being unto The Father. I am in Love with my God and Savior Jesus Christ and am caring less for the

thought of self more every passing day! I believe I understand the clay pot that I am... for what has been put within is not my own

but with the bindings of Grace I may call it mine for all eternity... Love Steven

Okay have at me!!! come and get it just don't eat my shoes

Great post, Steven, proving once again that your heart is with the Lord. (And I left your shoes intact!)

[mizzdy]

Repentance is the returning to God, teshuvah means to turn, I look at it as answering Gods call listening to His voice calling us back to Him which is a gift I agree. The act is ours to do He provides the way and we must make that choice. I see the 'granting' in Acts as the author showing that now God is calling all into His Kingdom and that even the pagan gentiles, the lost Gentiles of the northern kingdom are being given the way to return to Him. He gives us the avenue in which to turn, to walk with Him. Any time someone gives you something we can consider that a gift yet I would think there is some distinction between the free gift of salvation and the gift of repentance, each does require a choice from us with salvation all that is required of us is confession of Him but to turn to Him in all things requires daily action, daily we must make decisions so in some ways I do see a difference. Just throwing some thoughts out.

[enoob57]

(And I left your shoes intact!)

Thank you I really like my shoes!

[enoob57]

Repentance is the returning to God, teshuvah means to turn, I look at it as answering Gods call listening to His voice calling us back to Him which is a gift I agree. The act is ours to do He provides the way and we must make that choice. I see the 'granting' in Acts as the author showing that now God is calling all into His Kingdom and that even the pagan gentiles, the lost Gentiles of the northern kingdom are being given the way to return to Him. He gives us the avenue in which to turn, to walk with Him. Any time someone gives you something we can consider that a gift yet I would think there is some distinction between the free gift of salvation and the gift of repentance, each does require a choice from us with salvation all that is required of us is confession of Him but to turn to Him in all things requires daily action, daily we must make decisions so in some ways I do see a difference. Just throwing some thoughts out.

I see what your saying... it is a perspective of one time salvation, but repentance is life long! Do you believe that repentance becomes more of a tool of God's Spirit to keep us in fellowship with our Father and Christ after the point of salvation or the same as when we first saw our sin as rebellious hatred toward God and repentance turned our hearts from that rebellion back toward obedience in His Word? The reason I ask you this- to me it seems that all things now are favored to me as His son and the rebukes and exhortations of others are less offense and more a response of care and love for me... and repentance seems to live within me and is instant in its need when I am wrong in my being? All things seem to be in place to encourage me to deepen my relationship with His Word and Spirit in ultimate union with Lord Jesus Christ.... could it be that His desire for us is so great that all things if examined properly would lead us more and more into oneness in purpose and being with The Father so that it becomes a whisper in the ear... 'this may not come with us to Him' ... and to let it go as if it never had meaning of value ... Love Steven

[Guest Butero]

It makes no logical sense to me that God gives you free will to choose to be saved or lost until you get saved, and then your free will is gone, you are saved forever whether you want to be saved or not? To me, this is nothing but watered down Calvanism. Calvin taught that your salvation was by God's sovereign choice, and modern day Baptists altered it to say that it is our choice till we accept Christ, and then God is in control. I believe that the truth is that if we are saved or lost it is because God chose us to be saved or lost. He alone chooses who to reveal himself to. If you are one of his elect, you can't lose salvation because you were chosen to be saved before you were born. Only God knows for sure who his elect is, but our fruit gives us an indication whether we belong to God or not? If you have a death bed confession and get saved, that was God's plan all along. If you get saved early in life and backslide and turn away from God late in life, that was his plan, and you will spend eternity in hell because you were never one of his elect, though you may have thought you were. I would suggest you go back and re-read the entire book of Romans, and this will become more clear.

[enoob57]

It makes no logical sense to me that God gives you free will to choose to be saved or lost until you get saved, and then your free will is gone, you are saved forever whether you want to be saved or not? To me, this is nothing but watered down Calvanism. Calvin taught that your salvation was by God's sovereign choice, and modern day Baptists altered it to say that it is our choice till we accept Christ, and then God is in control. I believe that the truth is that if we are saved or lost it is because God chose us to be saved or lost. He alone chooses who to reveal himself to. If you are one of his elect, you can't lose salvation because you were chosen to be saved before you were born. Only God knows for sure who his elect is, but our fruit gives us an indication whether we belong to God or not? If you have a death bed confession and get saved, that was God's plan all along. If you get saved early in life and backslide and turn away from God late in life, that was his plan, and you will spend eternity in hell because you were never one of his elect, though you may have thought you were. I would suggest you go back and re-read the entire book of Romans, and this will become more clear.

I am fully aware of the issues on both sides! That is why I wait for The Father to enlarge me to be able to understand and not manipulate His Word to accommodate my mind! We are to be fitted to the Word of God and not The Word fitted to us! Words like World, all, not any, no pleasure ( and God always does what pleases Him ) etc.... are in themselves fullness of meaning and to manipulate those into a special definition is not the direction or careless way in which I wish to approach His Word! So remember to all of the people world means world but not to the Calvinist... also one other point calvinist are greatly encourage by their defense of God's Sovereignty- ? - it has been my understanding of God's Sovereignty that it needs nothing for it resides unmovable, undaunted, steadfast eternally! Love Steven

[Guest Butero]

It makes no logical sense to me that God gives you free will to choose to be saved or lost until you get saved, and then your free will is gone, you are saved forever whether you want to be saved or not? To me, this is nothing but watered down Calvanism. Calvin taught that your salvation was by God's sovereign choice, and modern day Baptists altered it to say that it is our choice till we accept Christ, and then God is in control. I believe that the truth is that if we are saved or lost it is because God chose us to be saved or lost. He alone chooses who to reveal himself to. If you are one of his elect, you can't lose salvation because you were chosen to be saved before you were born. Only God knows for sure who his elect is, but our fruit gives us an indication whether we belong to God or not? If you have a death bed confession and get saved, that was God's plan all along. If you get saved early in life and backslide and turn away from God late in life, that was his plan, and you will spend eternity in hell because you were never one of his elect, though you may have thought you were. I would suggest you go back and re-read the entire book of Romans, and this will become more clear.

I am fully aware of the issues on both sides! That is why I wait for The Father to enlarge me to be able to understand and not manipulate His Word to accommodate my mind! We are to be fitted to the Word of God and not The Word fitted to us! Words like World, all, not any, no pleasure ( and God always does what pleases Him ) etc.... are in themselves fullness of meaning and to manipulate those into a special definition not the direction or careless way in which I wish to approach His Word! So remember to all of the people world means world but not to the Calvinist... also one other point calvinist are greatly encourage by their defense of God's Sovereignty- ? - it has been my understanding of God's Sovereignty that it needs nothing for it resides unmovable, undaunted, steadfast eternally! Love Steven

I agree that we are to be fitted to the Word and not the other way around. For years, I would never consider the possibility that we had no choice in our salvation. I was 100 percent a believer in free will, both to get saved and to remain saved. It is hard to accept the idea that we have no control over our destiny, and I didn't want to believe that. If you were to go back to when I first joined WB, I was on the other end of the spectrum. The only thing that remains the same is my rejection of OSAS or "perseverance of the Saints" as is taught by most Baptists today. It has to be either absolute free will or no free will. To me, those who are teaching OSAS or POTS are the ones making the Word conform to their pre-conceived ideas.

[enoob57]

I agree that we are to be fitted to the Word and not the other way around. For years, I would never consider the possibility that we had no choice in our salvation. I was 100 percent a believer in free will, both to get saved and to remain saved. It is hard to accept the idea that we have no control over our destiny, and I didn't want to believe that. If you were to go back to when I first joined WB, I was on the other end of the spectrum. The only thing that remains the same is my rejection of OSAS or "perseverance of the Saints" as is taught by most Baptists today. It has to be either absolute free will or no free will. To me, those who are teaching OSAS or POTS are the ones making the Word conform to their pre-conceived ideas.

Because The Lord has told me that His Ways will exceed mine and that He finds pleasure in the child of His who is willing to wait upon His good pleasure in revealing that which I am unable at the present... I have perfect peace in saying yes my Father elects- He says so and He also judges according to choice all men make... I have come to this reality that His Person (all that He has revealed to me thus far by The Teacher (Holy Spirit)in His Word) is the most beautiful Being that exceeds all dreams and hopes that I myself could have generated! So much so that only His Word has source to adequately describe that beauty yet my smallness becomes more groanings and tears for words fail because of mind and heart ability ends yet I see the truth continuing past that which I am able to go and it leaves me with such longing to follow but I can't and I watch as the greatest experience of my being to all that I have known... this reality witnesses to me the hope of growth that I might continue on with Him in His Beauty and Perfect Holiness...it is moments like this that Godly Patience is revealed for yet unsatisfied I am fully satisfied in the morrow of Hope with Him... It is the cleanness of no guile fully revealed in nothing hidden that the growth mostly comes and the increase is not in concept of gain but of responsibility of service to others to reveal it's true intent of witness to Him Who has given it.... Love Steven

[childeye]

Because The Lord has told me that His Ways will exceed mine and that He finds pleasure in the child of His who is willing to wait upon His good pleasure in revealing that which I am unable at the present... I have perfect peace in saying yes my Father elects- He says so and He also judges according to choice all men make... I have come to this reality that His Person (all that He has revealed to me thus far by The Teacher (Holy Spirit)in His Word) is the most beautiful Being that exceeds all dreams and hopes that I myself could have generated! So much so that only His Word has source to adequately describe that beauty yet my smallness becomes more groanings and tears for words fail because of mind and heart ability ends yet I see the truth continuing past that which I am able to go and it leaves me with such longing to follow but I can't and I watch as the greatest experience of my being to all that I have known... this reality witnesses to me the hope of growth that I might continue on with Him in His Beauty and Perfect Holiness...it is moments like this that Godly Patience is revealed for yet unsatisfied I am fully satisfied in the morrow of Hope with Him... It is the cleanness of no guile fully revealed in nothing hidden that the growth mostly comes and the increase is not in concept of gain but of responsibility of service to others to reveal it's true intent of witness to Him Who has given it.... Love Steven

Great thread my dear Steven. I am frankly surprised. I didn't know you could write so passionately. Your sentiments are well thought out, and they all glorify God and not men. Yes God will judge, and He will judge according to our knowledge. You were right to wait to speak, and I hope you forgive me. While I deemed you pure of heart, I thought you were just another student of the bible, afraid to make a stand. I had no business thinking that, and I regret it. Your eloquence in describing your sentiments towards God's Holy Spirit are what I like the best. They are bold and definitive. May God inspire all your thought.