Rapture Question

[wyguy]

First, PLEASE let's not turn this into a debate on whether there will be a Rapture or not. Thanks.

Okay, my question to those that do believe we will be raptured:

Do you think we will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene, or after?

[MorningGlory]

First, PLEASE let's not turn this into a debate on whether there will be a Rapture or not. Thanks.

Okay, my question to those that do believe we will be raptured:

Do you think we will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene, or after?

Before.......

[enoob57]

Pretrib due to the Nature of these promises

1 Thess 1:9-10

9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

NKJV

1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

NKJV

Rev 3:10-12

10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

NKJV

Love Steven

[Guest man]

Do you think we will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene, or after?

After.

[JohnD]

Daniel 12:11-12 (NASB95)

11 “From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

12 “How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!

From the end of time counting back 1290 days to the time when the false messiah abates Jewish Temple sacrifices, there is still 105 days to go till the rapture on day 1335 of the 70th Week of Daniel.

The 70th Week of Daniel is not one seven year tribulation but two three and a half year tribulations (the first for the saints the second for the doomed).

Revelation 12 (NASB95)

1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

2 and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

11 “And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

12 “For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”

13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.

14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.

16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.

17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 13:5-10 (NASB95)

5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

This is what 666 is all about... tracking down / forcing out of hiding the one people on earth who will not take the mark. Christians.

Revelation 13:16-18 (NASB95)

16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,

17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

The rapture will take place after the false messiah is on the scene and reveals his true colors when he defiles the temple and claims to be God and then renege on his covenant with Israel.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NASB95)

1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Edited April 28, 2011 by JohnDB

[rollinTHUNDER]

First, PLEASE let's not turn this into a debate on whether there will be a Rapture or not. Thanks.

Okay, my question to those that do believe we will be raptured:

Do you think we will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene, or after?

According to Daniel, Christ and Paul, it will be after the abomination of desolation.

Most scholars disregard Daniel, because they insist that his message was only for Jews. That is a huge mistake that I prove in my book.

Then we have Jesus, and many also believe His message was for the Jews only as well, which I also prove wrong.

Then we have Paul, but they can no longer make the claim that the message is only for the Jews, because Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles. So all three are in agreement.

I don't have time to track down the Scripture right now, so I'll just leave you with my opinion, for now anyway.

[nebula]

Do you think we will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene, or after?

If we are to meet the Lord in the air, I believe it will be when the Lord comes back - which doesn't take place until the end of the Great Tribulation.

So my answer is after.

[nebula]

The rapture will take place after the false messiah is on the scene and reveals his true colors when he defiles the temple and claims to be God and then renege on his covenant with Israel.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NASB95)

1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

I guess that about says it.

[Fraught]

After.

[rollinTHUNDER]

The rapture will take place after the false messiah is on the scene and reveals his true colors when he defiles the temple and claims to be God and then renege on his covenant with Israel.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NASB95)

1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

I guess that about says it.

Right on nebula! That's the one I was referring to from Paul. It says a mouthful, and I can't see any wiggle room around it. It goes right along with this one from Christ:

Matthew 24:15-31 KJV

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And now let's take a look at Daniel's prophecy, which he was not able to understand, I might add.

Daniel 12:1-4 KJV

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Now notice in verse (1), where it says "and at that time," not just once, but twice. What time was it? To answer this, we go back to the previous chapter, and see that the abomination of desolation has already taken place.

Daniel 11:36-37

And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.