grey areas

[Work in Progress]

so do you think there are grey areas for believers? please provide scripture.

Because there is no Scripture for them is precisely why they are gray areas.

And your girls are absolutely adorable!

[3in1]

Because there is no Scripture for them is precisely why they are gray areas. wink.gif

And your girls are absolutely adorable!

1.) simple and yet so true!

2.) thank you, the bad thing is i think my oldest knows it!!( arrgh, dad bangs head on wall!) she is always asking, "why does everyone say that me and Jadyn are sooo pretty?!" yikes! i think im in for it!

in Christ

[Guest LadyC]

LOL... kids are so precocious! 3in1, you're doing great, keep up the good work... i'll check back to see the progress your making in this thread tomorrow!

and WIP, i couldn't have said it better myself... or i already woulda beat ya to it!

[Orr v'emet]

what are we saying if people see us buying it from somewhere? that we happen to like to have a drink. whats wrong w/ that? it is very possible to still be a good witness for Christ seeing how He drank. Luke 7:31-35. i do understand your desire to not cause someone to stumble, but there are sooooo many other ways this can be taken as well, very legitamately.

one must examine their views closely. when one says what will 'people' say this should not mean: 'people' = everyone. what about those who may be looking for someone to relate to? wont you also be a good witness in this situation?

just some thoughts to ponder

in Christ

To me it's simply not worth it to take a chance. I am not willing to trade a drink for even the possibility of losing my witness.

what about those who may be looking for someone to relate to? wont you also be a good witness in this situation?

As far as this is concerned uh, no. We can't be all things to all people. I can't join in what I think is sin in order to be a witness do others. It's not a witness, for Christ that is. IMO

[Guest yod]

QUOTE 

what about those who may be looking for someone to relate to? wont you also be a good witness in this situation? 

As far as this is concerned uh, no. We can't be all things to all people. I can't join in what I think is sin in order to be a witness do others. It's not a witness, for Christ that is. IMO

if your faith tells you it's a sin, then please stay away from anyone who drinks because you will surely be offensive for no reason except morality.

It is NOT a sin to drink. This is a cultural issue....a principle of conscience...but not necessarily a sin.

Romans 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.

14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Why do you always bring at least 2 Baptists when you go fishing???

If you bring only one, he'll drink all your beer. :LOL:

[Orr v'emet]

QUOTE

[Guest LadyC]

but see, kmb, you're also missing the point we're trying to make. sure, there will be some that doubt our sincerity and won't listen to us who partake in a bottle of beer (i hate beer) or glass of wine. that's why there are people like you, whom God uses to bear witness to them!

and then there are others who will slam their ears shut the minute you open your mouth, because they think you're too unapproachable, too "perfect", too unable to relate to them, and they think that you will only pass judgement on them because they don't measure up...

that's why God uses someone like 'us' to bear witness to them... they don't percieve us as holier than them, they see us as someone whom they can relate to, whom they aren't afraid to listen to, and their ears are more open to us.

NOTE: i'm not saying you or anyone else is "holier than thou" or unapproachable or perfect, i'm describing the perception of some unsaved people, as they've described christians they've known.

this isn't about who's right and who's wrong, this is about how God can use us all FULLY to glorify him! because it glorifies Him just as much when a sinner is led to Christ, no matter if the seed is planted by someone at a liquor store buying a six pack of budweiser, or someone at the convenience store purchasing a pack of smokes, or someone sitting next to them at the blackjack table.

there are people i've led to Christ that would NEVER have listened to a word my oldest brother (who has never smoked or drank) has to say. and there are people my brother has led to Christ that would never have listened to a word i had to say because i DO smoke and enjoy an occasional brain freeze (it's a flavor of daquiri).

but God wants them all to come to Christ, and He uses each of us to bear witness to them in ways that others can't.

in other words, while the choices of one person (to drink, to smoke, to have tatoos, to eat a diet of steak and potatoes) may be a stumbling block to some, the choices of another (to eat only organic food or vegetarian diet, to never touch alcohol, to be in church everytime the doors open, etc.) may be a stumbling block to someone else.

but they all need to be reached. and if God can't use me to reach them, he may use you instead... and vice versa.

i'll tell you a story, about a wiccan that stayed in my home for a couple of weeks... until i discovered she was wiccan. she was my roommate's friend, and was watching my kids when we were at work (i was the manager, and my roommate was training as assistant manager.) when i found out the girl was wiccan, just before we had to leave for work, i called one of my brothers and asked him to put a prayer covering over our house. now, this brother dips snuff and enjoys an occasional beer. he, in turn, called my dad and my other brother, who have no vices... but only after raking me over the coals and telling me to leave work and go kick the girl out and take care of my kids. that was not an option. it was kami's first day of training, and she and i were the only ones working that night, and we had a pool tournament in progress.

the following day, barely before the son rose, my father shows up banging on my door screaming at me to get that 'evil witch' out of my house. (my brother who had called him had hung up on me, and didn't speak to me for six months). my kids were terrified because they'd never seen my dad so angry, and he took them (against my will) and went back to his home, an hour away. by this time the entire neighborhood was out on their lawns watching the spectacle. the wiccan was in tears, my roommate was in another room trying to restrain herself from going ballistic on my dad, and i was... well i was an emotional mess.

the wiccan and i went out for a drive shortly after. she and i had talked the night before, and she had told me she understood my feelings and had already booked a bus ticket home while i'd been working, and would be leaving the following day. that wasn't good enough for my family, who wanted me to kick her to the curb that instant.

we talked during that ride, we cried, she even offered to join in prayer with me, she praying to her god, me praying to God. of course, i explained that was not possible... you can't join in prayer together praying to opposing forces. she understood. we stopped by my pool hall where i worked, had a drink and a cigarette or two.

and then she told me something that has stuck with me more than anything else anyone has ever said.

she said i was the only christian she'd ever met, aside from her mother, who had shown her what Jesus really was... that i was the only one who had ever made her feel like she wasn't looked down on as a worthless scumbag. she gave me a huge hug and said thanks with tears streaming down her face.

she left the next morning. i have no idea if she ever came to Christ, but it was i who was able to plant a seed... definitely not the other members of my family were "more faithful", who had a stronger walk with God, etc.

God used ME, where he couldn't use all the other christians the girl had ever come across.

i'll leave you with some lyrics from a song that i always here in my head everytime i think of that girl... emphasis on some phrases is mine...

Somewhere in the growing up

Sometimes we grow out of touch

With the tenderness that drew us to the truth

If we close our minds and lock our hearts up tight

There's no room for love in what we do

And now our lives

Speak to those behind

What do they see

On the other side

Don't shut the door of heaven

On the ones who would believe

If they could see in us the love

That they've been looking forDon't shut the door of heaven

what that girl saw in me was the LOVE, not the cigarettes, not the wine cooler. she saw the love for HER that was missing among every other christian she'd ever had a conversation with... except for her own mother, of course.

was i any less fully used by God? was i not being used to God's full potential for me? well maybe so... but ya know what? it doesn't bother me a bit. i may be the "least" among Christians, but i certainly didn't feel any less blessed than the next person.

[3in1]

I don't think anyone gets the point here. It's not about drinking or not drinking and judging those who's opinions are different from mine. It's about living a life pleasing to God and focusing on Him. It's about sharing God with others and being a witness. How can we be effective witnesses for God if we cause someone to doubt us by our actions, no matter how innocent we may think they are? Again, is being able to drink alcohol worth the risk of someone's eternal salvation being jepordized? No, it's not. I personally believe that risk is always there so I am committed to try to remain holy as God is Holy, in every aspect of my life.

i see what you mean. but i think others are kind of thrown off by saying that you are committed to not drinking and remaing holy as God is, by not drinking. that you are living a life pleasing to God that focuses on Him, by not drinking. and that you are being a witness by not drinking. then when you say that there are no grey areas and everything is black and white, then drinking must be wrong all together. do you see why your stance on drinking and grey areas would come across in this manner? how do you explain not believing in grey areas but that those who choose to drink arent sinning?

in Christ

[apothanein kerdos]

When I think of grey areas, I think of my friend Bradley. Bradley can often be found with tattoos, unshaven, and smoking a cigarette. Bradley has long black hair, paints his finger nails black, and occasionally will have a beer with some of his friends. Bradley has also lead hundreds, if not thousands, of people to Christ because he's able to associate with people that look like him. People who were never told about Christ before, met Christ through Bradley. I've only known him for a month, and I'm already in awe of this guy.

[3in1]

When I think of grey areas, I think of my friend Bradley. Bradley can often be found with tattoos, unshaven, and smoking a cigarette. Bradley has long black hair, paints his finger nails black, and occasionally will have a beer with some of his friends. Bradley has also lead hundreds, if not thousands, of people to Christ because he's able to associate with people that look like him. People who were never told about Christ before, met Christ through Bradley. I've only known him for a month, and I'm already in awe of this guy

thats awesome! i love to hear of those that live for Christ that dont fit the 'norm'. that arent afraid to be who they are in Christ. they dont hide behind all the religious cliches', they arent concerned w/ being politically correct. just them and God!!!

in Christ