grey areas

September 14, 2004

But my calling is still not to examine others. Maybe to show by example. Maybe to be understanding, to hear, to help if asked.

I agree with you to some extent. However, I have learned that God speaks to me alot through other believers and as we mature in the Lord we appreciate when fellow Christians show us when we are in sin or doing something that is wrong. I have learned to accept criticism and discipline from others. Also, the Bible does say that we can judge those within the church. The problem comes when the judgement doesn't come from a place of love, but of self-righteousness.

God Bless!

Debbie

September 14, 2004

Very well said. Message received.

Thank you Debbie :dove

Orr v'emet · September 14, 2004

I used to think it was okay to do some certain things, but then I realized this doesn't glorify God. Yes, the Holy Spirit convicts, but the Bible also has certain underlying themes, that are black and white and they should apply to every area of our lives. Those of self-sacrifice, taking up our cross, following Him, forsaking the things of this world, looking for worldly pleasures instead of the things of God....it is in there....we just have to read it and get to know our Saviour more and we will see it.....sometimes we don't want to give up certain worldly pleasures and so we throw it in our grey area bin....I know I still do sometimes....then I ask myself....does it bring glory to God? That is why we are here...we are not created to do the pleasures of this world, but to glorify our Father and bring souls to Him.

I am not trying to be some self-righteous person here....cause I am in no way, at all! I hope that no one thinks I am trying to be....that is not my intent....my intent is to get people to re-examine themselves and see just where their priorities lie....In Christ alone or is a little bit of our priorities in the things of this world? I am talking to myself here too....

For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. Philippians 3:7-9

Christie you are an awesome sister in the Lord and it is weird disagreeing with you and difficult cause you are very good at debating! I hope we can agree to disagree and move on as sisters in the Lord...

God Bless!

Debbie

This is what I was trying to say, you just made it a little more clear!

September 14, 2004

called, LOL, thanks for the compliment on my debating skills, and no, i'm not mad or offended at you... but you're fun to debate with, so...

However, I have learned that God speaks to me alot through other believers and as we mature in the Lord we appreciate when fellow Christians show us when we are in sin or doing something that is wrong.

did you read my post in the he said she said thread? (i know you did cuz you responded there!!! )

remember what i said near the end of it? at what point do we cease being effective and start interfering with God's work on a person? if a person isn't listening to what you say, or if they're listening but disagree because they have not been convicted by the H.S., then your words only serve to shore up the opponents resolve....

and mine is pretty shored up. i believe that if it ain't in the Bible, then it isn't a universal black and white issue. it becomes black and white to each individual as God Himself directs that person.

at some point, (usually much quicker than we want it to), it becomes necessary to just leave it in God's hands and pray. to continue trying to convince another that their grey areas are not really grey implies that the person is not mature in Christ, and comes across all wrong... AND, interferes with the work that we should be letting God do. we are called to be God's hands, but we're not called to complete the job. :hug:

Orr v'emet · September 14, 2004

remember what i said near the end of it? at what point do we cease being effective and start interfering with God's work on a person? if a person isn't listening to what you say, or if they're listening but disagree because they have not been convicted by the H.S., then your words only serve to shore up the opponents resolve

....

Okay, now I'm having issues , not really. I agree whole-heartedly with Deb on this but I also very much agree with you Christie, on your statement above. I do feel that as we get closer to the Savior and grow more and more in Him the grey areas disappear, I know that to be true for myself. I also know what it's like to be in the situation above with an individual in my life. I don't want to go into much detail because it's rather personal but I can attest to the fact that we can interfere with God's work if we try to do things on our own. We can get so focused on driving the point home (so to speak) that we step in front of God and we are attempting to do the work when God is fully capable of doing it on His own. In my experience, my intentions were pure. My actions were out of a deep love for this person and I wanted him to have the kind of love relationship that I have with God. I was trying to make things happen. I was trying. I should have been letting the Holy Spirit do the work.

So where does that leave us? Are we to sit idly by? Certainly not. God expects us to be witness' to others. There are many times where God chooses to use me to relay scripture or discuss issues or whatever. What's important is being sensitive to the Holy Spirit's direction in when He wants us to speak the Truth or sit back and let Him do the work. We just have to be careful in giving watered-down versions of the truth hoping the Holy Spirit will bring other's into conviction.

COnsider Paul's instructions:

2 Corinthians 13: 5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test? 6And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed. 8For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 9We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. 10This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority--the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.

dwinkjr · September 14, 2004

Ok I read most of this, and I am going to agree with the fact that there are grey areas and everyone has different convictions at different times. But here is how you elimate ALL grey areas.

Anything that comes between you and the Lord is Sin, Now just in case you missed it let me say it again, ANYTHING that comes between YOU and the LORD is SIN!!

Now for those that think drinking in moderation is wrong for all, you make Christ a sinner when you do that, and in doing so you crumple the entire foundation on which our faith is built. DONOT mistake your personal convictions as the rules for everyone.

God Bless,

Dave

September 14, 2004

well said, dwink

September 14, 2004

Anything that comes between you and the Lord is Sin, Now just in case you missed it let me say it again, ANYTHING that comes between YOU and the LORD is SIN!!

WOW! That pretty well covers everything from A to Z. There has got to be something that is not a sin. This computer comes between me and God. WOW

Shyguy · September 15, 2004

Hi! This post got me thinking... about our "body". Is the Bible referring to our physical body as the temple, or our spiritual body? I had always believed he was referring to our spiritual body. I'm just curious as to what other's thoughts are on this. :flowers:

Our physical body, we have not recieved our new bodies as of yet. Though we are a new creation in him many times Paul speaks of the conflict and dual nature in Romans and other passages.

Rom 7:22-25 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Our Temple is our Body.

1Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

Work in Progress · September 15, 2004

DONOT mistake your personal convictions as the rules for everyone.

Love it, Dwinky! I think that comes with age/maturity. When we are young, we are dogmatic and think we know it all and thing we are 100% right. When we get older and mature, we realize that there are LOTS of gray areas and we aren't 100% right and we lose a lot of that dogmatism. At least, many do. Some never do.