Do Christians and Jews worship the same God?

[Guest]

Who Can Stand?

Out of the depths have I cried to you, O LORD.

Lord, hear my voice: let your ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.

If you, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?

But there is forgiveness with you, that you may be feared.

I wait for the LORD, my soul does wait, and in his word do I hope.

My soul waits for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.

Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities. Psalms 130 (American Kings James Version)

Jesus Saves

[Smalcald]

http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

"The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page. "

"The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach. "

[Matthitjah]

Here's Strongs;

4899. mashiyach

Search for H4899 in KJVSL

xyvm mashiyach maw-shee'-akh

from 4886; anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically, the Messiah:--anointed, Messiah.

See Hebrew 4886

The anointed One. The Consecrated Priest.

[Matthitjah]

As has already been said. Our Hope is Paul's Hope and the Hope of the Father's;

Ac 26:6

And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:

Ac 26:7

Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Ac 26:8

Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

I'm interested brother Smalcald. What Blessed Hope are you inheriting in Christ Jesus?

Peace,

Dave

[Smalcald]

I don't see much difference between not being heard by God or praying to a different God? Certainly it is a different belief about who God is.

The key is that we never lose the belief in the Divinity of Christ; I see that happening and creeping in all over the Christian Church so maybe that is why this issue is of concern to me. Just as long as we are very clear that we as believers know and believe that Jesus is God, that before Abraham was, I AM.

The difference is that they are saying it is a different God. It is not. I've seen you try and float the same theory before too. And it is both in-accurate and un-true. It is like some people cannot seem to figure out that the God of Israel and the God of the New Covanent are one in the same. Jews simply refuse to accept Jesus, who is part of the Father. Same God. If you say it is a 'different' God, you don't have it quite figured out yet. They are not saved without believing in Christ, but they are praying to and worshipping the exact same God. He simply does not hear them because reconciliation comes only through Jesus. It is not a difficult concept.

There is indeed only one God. The fact is when you don't pray to Christ when you don't worship Christ you are not worshiping the same God as believers, you are right it is not a difficult concept. You really have to compromise and twist to come up with any other idea. The fact is though we do worship the same God as many Jews, the Jew's who are Christians who are believers who grafted us into the tree, Paul, Peter, Stephen, Timothy, James, down through the centuries including those who believe today, so yes we do worship the same God as those Jewish people do. But Judaism today, no way.

How can we go down this path and feel like we have not denied Christ? The concept in Judaism today of who the Messiah is, is patently false, a lie straight from the father of lies. People who practice Judaism believe that the coming Messiah they are waiting for of the Jews will not be divine, will be a human being a worldly political leader.

I don't know who they are praying to but it is not the God of Israel.

[nebula]

Well that is true. God is the same. I don't know what that has to do with someone not worshiping that God though, either Jew or Gentile? The whole point of Israel was and is Jesus Christ.

Who did the Jews worship before Jesus was born?

[~candice~]

Well that is true. God is the same. I don't know what that has to do with someone not worshiping that God though, either Jew or Gentile? The whole point of Israel was and is Jesus Christ.

Who did the Jews worship before Jesus was born?

Jesus

[Guest LadyC]

the israelites worshiped God, the Father. i hope each of us here also worship God the Father. if we worship only Jesus and don't worship our Father, then we're missing something vitally important, don't ya think?

and we don't pray to Jesus, we pray to the Father THROUGH Jesus... in the NAME of Jesus. That is why the Father hears our prayers, because Jesus is our intercessor. the jews, unfortunately, have not been reconciled to the Father through Jesus Christ. it's still the same Father.

[nebula]

I wish that were true. From what I can tell and I am open to being wrong on this totally; but the conception that Jews who practice Judaism today have of the Messiah is nothing like the Christ revealed in the New Testament. He seems to be a human political leader and certainly not God.

OK, Smalcald, your response betrays a glaring error.

Your post shows that you believe in the Gentile Christ and not the Jewish Messiah.

You may think it meaningless, but actually it is not. That change of terminology completely alters the perspective.

The Messiah that the Jews of today are looking for is the same Messiah that the Jews were looking for when Jesus walked the Earth. That is "Messiah Son of David" (aka the Conquering King). Hebrew Scriptures are full of prophecies of Messiah Son of David. However, there are also prophecies of "Messiah Son of Joseph" (aka the Suffering Servant). There has always been debate among the Jews as to whether or not these two Messiahs are two different men or the same man. But by the time Jesus came to earth, the people were so longing for Messiah who would drive out the Romans that this is the one they were looking for. For the Jews who did not believe in Jesus, this longing has never changed. And, unfortunately, due to Christian persecution over the centuries, the unbelieving Jews have squelched the teaching of Messiah Ben Joseph. They've become so antagonistic against the Christian Jesus - because the Christian Jesus so hates them - that Isaiah 53 is even no longer taught in Synagogue.

Thus when I see you mentioning "their Messiah" versus "the Christ," this to me sends up a red flag.

The Messiah they are looking for is Scriptural. And Messiah Son of David will come. They just missed that He came as Messiah Ben Joseph first.

[goldust59]

I wish that were true. From what I can tell and I am open to being wrong on this totally; but the conception that Jews who practice Judaism today have of the Messiah is nothing like the Christ revealed in the New Testament. He seems to be a human political leader and certainly not God.

OK, Smalcald, your response betrays a glaring error.

Your post shows that you believe in the Gentile Christ and not the Jewish Messiah.

You may think it meaningless, but actually it is not. That change of terminology completely alters the perspective.

The Messiah that the Jews of today are looking for is the same Messiah that the Jews were looking for when Jesus walked the Earth. That is "Messiah Son of David" (aka the Conquering King). Hebrew Scriptures are full of prophecies of Messiah Son of David. However, there are also prophecies of "Messiah Son of Joseph" (aka the Suffering Servant). There has always been debate among the Jews as to whether or not these two Messiahs are two different men or the same man. But by the time Jesus came to earth, the people were so longing for Messiah who would drive out the Romans that this is the one they were looking for. For the Jews who did not believe in Jesus, this longing has never changed. And, unfortunately, due to Christian persecution over the centuries, the unbelieving Jews have squelched the teaching of Messiah Ben Joseph. They've become so antagonistic against the Christian Jesus - because the Christian Jesus so hates them - that Isaiah 53 is even no longer taught in Synagogue.

Thus when I see you mentioning "their Messiah" versus "the Christ," this to me sends up a red flag.

The Messiah they are looking for is Scriptural. And Messiah Son of David will come. They just missed that He came as Messiah Ben Joseph first.

Well said nebula!