Have the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased?

[johnP]

Scudbuddy!

But I am using the standard of presuming that is infamous amongst Cessationist in interpreting the gifts out of the Word.

Great ain't it?

I was just sending this when I shall your last post. Well done. It ain't often you hear this.

What do you think to below then? Has it any mileage? It's a bit off topic though.

As to language;

GE 11:5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

GE 11:8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel--because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

God confused the languages in Babel and Pentecost was a reversal of that, in part. The One that confused language in the first place can also unconfuse it any time He wants for His own purposes.

The miracle of communications and travel that we have shows that Babel is being addressed by us now. We on Worthy have a world stage to spout upon. Soon we will have instant translations available so we can all talk with any one real time without needing the spiritual gift of other languages.

It is when mankind work together as a mass that we can reach the stars. We are like the God's themselves. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

Which means of course that the end is nigh.

As to gibbering. (I think the dictionary definition is great on this: to speak rapidly, inarticulately, and often foolishly)

1 Cor 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

So if you read scripture in one way and another person does so in another way there is no way to convince each other is there?

I trust Jesus to have His Church where and how He chooses and when He is ready He will show us what to do.

johnp.

[sail2awe]

It does use the word "perfect." It says "When the perfect is come............."

I disagree with Cessationist as to the meaning, but it does say that.

Oh, i totally missed it, thanks.

I was just doing something with this very subject too. looking at figures of speech.

we see thru a glass enigmatically is more correct in the Greek.

this is because God is Spirit, and must stoop down to us. we can never rise up to His level. when we have children we use baby talk. little bitty words, for they cannot understand 9 or 10 letter words. they would be unapproachable unless we stoop down to their level.

it is with this in mind that God uses such terms as fingers, eyes, ears, His hand, or arm. He shares with us what we can know of His attributes by using words that we know. it is the only way we can understand Him. It must be a daunting task for Him to undertake this trying to gain understanding in us, being so far above all that we can know.

Oh, what a glorious and precious God we have, that does take the time to let us know what is going on.

when this perfect comes is in reference to Him being "all in all".

[Botz]

Neb...

I do hope that's not aimed at me!

It was aimed at the virulent unbelief that I perceived...if you think the hat fits..etc.

I realize this is a controversial discussion and everybody wants to prove their point of view...but at the very least I would have thought there would have been some small acknowledgement of the move of G-d that has been mentioned here...and yet all I have heard is warnings about it being unbiblical...and finger wagging about the dangers of personal testimony even when they demonstrate the gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation on the front line...even to the case of people being martyred.

As I sat at my computer and read the comments/warnings/arguments I felt a mixture of sadness and anger....

Sad that some Christians can be so bound up about the exactitude of the word of G-d that they seem unable to experience any of the liberty that is in Christ and seem to project a religious bondage to Scripture as they seek to safe-guard G-ds Holy word.

Angry that unbelief should so easily stand up like some Goliath and shout against the people of Faith and mock a 'wimpy god'...and in my Spirit I want to roar back

that the L-rd of Hosts is Mighty in Power and He is active in His Church and is moving by His Spirit in Power saving multitudes,healing the sick,performing miracles,casting out demons and raising the dead.

[Scudbuddy]

Hi Scud.

QUOTE

Those stories aren't lies. I witnessed them with my own eyes....Besides what I have seen, men I know that spend hours in prayer and fasting and are humble men with the fear of God all over them have told me of their own experiences.

Ok scud. Do you always take other people word for it? I don't. You keep listing the experiences of others that cannot be confirmed, and i'll stick to His Word.

QUOTE

You have called all of us liars, yet you have not been where I have been.

I have, right here, right know, only I won't believe as easily as you believe others experiences that you were told about.

QUOTE

With my own eyes I have seen the masses come to Christ after great miracles.

Numbers mean nothing to me. If numbers represented truth, we would all be Muslim because there are more Muslims than any other. And I know you don't believe that Muslim teach the truth. The truth is that I could grow a long spiritual beard, put on a bath robe, go to the beach and tell perople i'm Moses, and have one hundred followers in one hour. When you appeal to the fleshly desires of the world, they will come in droves.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,

I don't know if you are reading my post carefully or not. I am not just depending on what others told me. I believe I made it clear that I saw this with my own eyes. I was there. I talked to the doctors. I talked to the ones healed. I interviewed the witnesses like me who saw the same thing I saw. Basically you are saying I am lying.

So before I go into anymore of your last post, address that.

[larryt]

Neb...

I do hope that's not aimed at me!

It was aimed at the virulent unbelief that I perceived...if you think the hat fits..etc.

I realize this is a controversial discussion and everybody wants to prove their point of view...but at the very least I would have thought there would have been some small acknowledgement of the move of G-d that has been mentioned here...and yet all I have heard is warnings about it being unbiblical...and finger wagging about the dangers of personal testimony even when they demonstrate the gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation on the front line...even to the case of people being martyred.

As I sat at my computer and read the comments/warnings/arguments I felt a mixture of sadness and anger....

Sad that some Christians can be so bound up about the exactitude of the word of G-d that they seem unable to experience any of the liberty that is in Christ and seem to project a religious bondage to Scripture as they seek to safe-guard G-ds Holy word.

Angry that unbelief should so easily stand up like some Goliath and shout against the people of Faith and mock a 'wimpy god'...and in my Spirit I want to roar back

that the L-rd of Hosts is Mighty in Power and He is active in His Church and is moving by His Spirit in Power saving multitudes,healing the sick,performing miracles,casting out demons and raising the dead.

Hey Botz,

With the cessationists SEEING IS BELIEVEING.

For those baptized in the cloud AND in the water BELIEVEING IS SEEING

LT

[larryt]

Hi Scud.

QUOTE

Those stories aren't lies. I witnessed them with my own eyes....Besides what I have seen, men I know that spend hours in prayer and fasting and are humble men with the fear of God all over them have told me of their own experiences.

Ok scud. Do you always take other people word for it? I don't. You keep listing the experiences of others that cannot be confirmed, and i'll stick to His Word.

QUOTE

You have called all of us liars, yet you have not been where I have been.

I have, right here, right know, only I won't believe as easily as you believe others experiences that you were told about.

QUOTE

With my own eyes I have seen the masses come to Christ after great miracles.

Numbers mean nothing to me. If numbers represented truth, we would all be Muslim because there are more Muslims than any other. And I know you don't believe that Muslim teach the truth. The truth is that I could grow a long spiritual beard, put on a bath robe, go to the beach and tell perople i'm Moses, and have one hundred followers in one hour. When you appeal to the fleshly desires of the world, they will come in droves.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,

I don't know if you are reading my post carefully or not. I am not just depending on what others told me. I believe I made it clear that I saw this with my own eyes. I was there. I talked to the doctors. I talked to the ones healed. I interviewed the witnesses like me who saw the same thing I saw.  Basically you are saying I am lying.

So before I go into anymore of your last post, address that.

Hey Scud,

Love believes all things.

As a new christian in the late 70's I was taught sound baptist cessationist doctrine. There were too many things that didn't add up though. Especially after I talked at length to one of those baptist missionaries to New Guinea. I too have had the first hand knowledge and it wasn't until I started to believe that God started letting me see.

LT

[Scudbuddy]

Hi Scud.

QUOTE

Those stories aren't lies. I witnessed them with my own eyes....Besides what I have seen, men I know that spend hours in prayer and fasting and are humble men with the fear of God all over them have told me of their own experiences.

Ok scud. Do you always take other people word for it? I don't. You keep listing the experiences of others that cannot be confirmed, and i'll stick to His Word.

QUOTE

You have called all of us liars, yet you have not been where I have been.

I have, right here, right know, only I won't believe as easily as you believe others experiences that you were told about.

QUOTE

With my own eyes I have seen the masses come to Christ after great miracles.

Numbers mean nothing to me. If numbers represented truth, we would all be Muslim because there are more Muslims than any other. And I know you don't believe that Muslim teach the truth. The truth is that I could grow a long spiritual beard, put on a bath robe, go to the beach and tell perople i'm Moses, and have one hundred followers in one hour. When you appeal to the fleshly desires of the world, they will come in droves.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,

I don't know if you are reading my post carefully or not. I am not just depending on what others told me. I believe I made it clear that I saw this with my own eyes. I was there. I talked to the doctors. I talked to the ones healed. I interviewed the witnesses like me who saw the same thing I saw.

[DonnaPs25]

Interesting to see this thread. I have a dear friend who is from Church of Christ.

He indicates they do not believe spiritual gifts are still active today. That the coming of Christ eliminated the need. That there is no longer a need for tongues, or interpreter, etc.

Sorry, I don't remember it all, but wanted to pass on this tidbit.

Personally I think all believers are given spiritual gifts still today.

God bless,

Donna

[Nebuchadnezza10]

To me to say that all the gifts are gone is to say we are acting on our own. Our repentance is a gift, our salvation is a gift, our sanctification, obedience, understanding, our will to please Him, praise Him, do His will are all gifts. We could not do anything pleasing to God on our own, we would not seek Him, repent, find Salvation etc..(see the list above).

Hey Dave123, I totally agree that we get gifts from God in the sense that your above quote talks about, however I am talking specifically about the Gifts of the HS. 1 cor 12

If you believe that the perfect is the completed cannon, how do you explain prophecy and knowledge in the Tribulation and Kingdom ages. Shouldn't they be gone?

Not necessarily the cannon but when the last book of the new testament was made available to all the churches. In addition, I am not sure what you are getting at with the ages of tribulation and kingdoms.

I've got a pretty good idea how you interperet chapter 13. The thing that always bothered me about the traditional Baptist view of this passage is that it always seemed like a reach at best, it never really sat well with me.

Just to let ya know, I

[Botz]

Hey Botz,

With the cessationists SEEING IS BELIEVEING.

For those baptized in the cloud AND in the water BELIEVEING IS SEEING

LT

I see....

It was aimed at the virulent unbelief that I perceived...if you think the hat fits..etc.

I realize this is a controversial discussion and everybody wants to prove their point of view...but at the very least I would have thought there would have been some small acknowledgement of the move of G-d that has been mentioned here...and yet all I have heard is warnings about it being unbiblical...and finger wagging about the dangers of personal testimony even when they demonstrate the gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation on the front line...even to the case of people being martyred.

As I sat at my computer and read the comments/warnings/arguments I felt a mixture of sadness and anger....

Sad that some Christians can be so bound up about the exactitude of the word of G-d that they seem unable to experience any of the liberty that is in Christ and seem to project a religious bondage to Scripture as they seek to safe-guard G-ds Holy word.

Angry that unbelief should so easily stand up like some Goliath and shout against the people of Faith and mock a 'wimpy god'...and in my Spirit I want to roar back

that the L-rd of Hosts is Mighty in Power and He is active in His Church and is moving by His Spirit in Power saving multitudes,healing the sick,performing miracles,casting out demons and raising the dead.

Neb....Don