Denominations?

[OneLight]

I can forgive someone who has sinned against me, but the final judgment about full forgiveness is Gods alone. Jesus stated that if we forgive someone, so will He. That does not mean that we are God, but that the love that is required to forgive someone who has done us wrong is from God and is part of His overall plan. There is a big difference between forgiving someone who has done something against you and erasing it from the books.

Jesus gave the apostles his authority to forgive sins.

If you are referring to "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."”, you must agree this is because they were given the Holy Spirit, the very same Spirit He sent to the rest of the believers after his Ascension. It is not just the Apostles who have the ability to forgive, we all have the same ability. Did you read what I posted earlier? It is He who works through us that has the power to forgive sins, as He leads us. You are giving man too much power when they have none. Without His Spirit, they could do nothing.

[OneLight]

I do believe you are thinking you are replying to someone else while you quote me. I have never posted a link to CARM (in this thread) and I have been answering your questions. If I have missed any, please point them out.

My apologies. I got you mixed up with Dragoon.

Again you're mistaken. Dragon stood against the statement that nChrist posted when he asked "Are Roman Catholics Christians?"

[OneLight]

Are Roman Catholics Christians?

http://carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

I think asking "are Roman Catholics Christians" is a misleading question though.

I think individual Roman catholics could certainly be Christians. A better wording might be, "Can people who believe and follow all the teachings (dogma and doctrine) of the Roman Catholic Church be Christians?"

What are your thoughts on this?

All Christianity came from the Catholic Church, but not all Christians are in full communion with the Catholic Church. Individuals professing to be Christian, Catholic or otherwise, may or may not have a relationship with Christ.

However, the sacraments of the Church convey graces to Catholics that are unavailable outside of the Church.

No. All Christianity came from Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Some branches of it developed through the church in Rome, which became the Roman Catholic Church.

You are giving glory to men which rightfully belongs to God.

That REALLY angers me.

Your anger is misplaced. Jesus gave his authority to his Church. I'm not sure why this would anger you.

NO, it did not just start with Jesus of Nazareth, nor the Roman Catholic Church.

1 Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

KJV

Again, you are wrong and bring in scripture that has nothing to do with Christianity. You should study about how and when the word Christian came about. Acts 11:26 "And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." Christianity came out of the word Christians, which meant to be Christ like. Without Christ, there would not be the term Christians. Without Christians, there would be no Christianity.

[nebula]

NO, it did not just start with Jesus of Nazareth,...

for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Then who or what are you saying Christianity began with????

[Dragoon]

Are Roman Catholics Christians?

http://carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

I think asking "are Roman Catholics Christians" is a misleading question though.

I think individual Roman catholics could certainly be Christians. A better wording might be, "Can people who believe and follow all the teachings (dogma and doctrine) of the Roman Catholic Church be Christians?"

What are your thoughts on this?

All Christianity came from the Catholic Church, but not all Christians are in full communion with the Catholic Church. Individuals professing to be Christian, Catholic or otherwise, may or may not have a relationship with Christ.

However, the sacraments of the Church convey graces to Catholics that are unavailable outside of the Church.

No. All Christianity came from Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Some branches of it developed through the church in Rome, which became the Roman Catholic Church.

You are giving glory to men which rightfully belongs to God.

That REALLY angers me.

Your anger is misplaced. Jesus gave his authority to his Church. I'm not sure why this would anger you.

NO, it did not just start with Jesus of Nazareth, nor the Roman Catholic Church.

1 Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

KJV

You've had some other responses showing where you are mistaken in this. I'm a little confused in any case, as the passage you use to refute things actually speaks of Christ, but in any case might I remind you;

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it...

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(John 1:1-14)

In the beginning was the Word...

[OneLight]

I can forgive someone who has sinned against me, but the final judgment about full forgiveness is Gods alone. Jesus stated that if we forgive someone, so will He. That does not mean that we are God, but that the love that is required to forgive someone who has done us wrong is from God and is part of His overall plan. There is a big difference between forgiving someone who has done something against you and erasing it from the books.

Jesus gave the apostles his authority to forgive sins.

If you are referring to "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."”, you must agree this is because they were given the Holy Spirit, the very same Spirit He sent to the rest of the believers after his Ascension. It is not just the Apostles who have the ability to forgive, we all have the same ability. Did you read what I posted earlier? It is He who works through us that has the power to forgive sins, as He leads us. You are giving man too much power when they have none. Without His Spirit, they could do nothing.

Only the apostles were given the authority to forgive sins. They were also given the authority to bind and loose, which is basically the same thing.

The Holy Spirit works in all of our lives but we don't all have the same authority.

The Holy Spirit does what He wishes with whom He wishes. You fail to see the power of His Spirit in everyone. Because you have decided it is not so, to you that is the truth, but tho those who believe in the fullness of His Spirit, it is not so.

[Dragoon]

I can forgive someone who has sinned against me, but the final judgment about full forgiveness is Gods alone. Jesus stated that if we forgive someone, so will He. That does not mean that we are God, but that the love that is required to forgive someone who has done us wrong is from God and is part of His overall plan. There is a big difference between forgiving someone who has done something against you and erasing it from the books.

Jesus gave the apostles his authority to forgive sins.

If you are referring to "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."”, you must agree this is because they were given the Holy Spirit, the very same Spirit He sent to the rest of the believers after his Ascension. It is not just the Apostles who have the ability to forgive, we all have the same ability. Did you read what I posted earlier? It is He who works through us that has the power to forgive sins, as He leads us. You are giving man too much power when they have none. Without His Spirit, they could do nothing.

Only the apostles were given the authority to forgive sins. They were also given the authority to bind and loose, which is basically the same thing.

The Holy Spirit works in all of our lives but we don't all have the same authority.

You spend a lot of time giving the RC viewpoint (as you understand it), but you seem ignorant of what the Bible says.

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. (James 5:15) This passage clearly does not refer to the Apostles.

Your views show a void in understanding about God. If this reflects your church, then I'm afraid you are only making it more clear why people have rejected Roman Catholicism.

[nChrist]

chestertonrules

Question for you:

Would you follow Jesus into the Catholic Church if that is where he led you?

That's NOT going to happen because God won't lead people into a FALSE church. Look for the opposite - God leading people out of it.

http://carm.org/roman-catholicism

[OneLight]

chestertonrules

Question for you:

Would you follow Jesus into the Catholic Church if that is where he led you?

That's NOT going to happen because God won't lead people into a FALSE church. Look for the opposite - God leading people out of it.

http://carm.org/roman-catholicism

So you would not follow Jesus if he led you into the Church.

That's too bad.

I recommend that you ask God to give you the grace to follow wherever he leads.

It is truly sad when people bait each other like this. It would be no different if you weref asked if you would follow Jesus out of the Catholic Church. Both are traps against personal beliefs and is not of the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

[OneLight]

chestertonrules

Question for you:

Would you follow Jesus into the Catholic Church if that is where he led you?

That's NOT going to happen because God won't lead people into a FALSE church. Look for the opposite - God leading people out of it.

http://carm.org/roman-catholicism

So you would not follow Jesus if he led you into the Church.

That's too bad.

I recommend that you ask God to give you the grace to follow wherever he leads.

It is truly sad when people bait each other like this. It would be no different if you weref asked if you would follow Jesus out of the Catholic Church. Both are traps against personal beliefs and is not of the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

I would follow Jesus wherever he leads, which is why I am a Catholic. Of course I would follow him out of the Church if that is where he led me.

Personal beliefs, ie. leaning on your own understanding, is a dangerous method of discernment.

The Holy Spirit does not lead different individuals to different truths. There is Truth and there is something else.

If two individuals hold contradictory views then both are not led by the Holy Spirit regarding these matters.

Do you think speaking the Truth is somehow opposed to goodness or love? If so, please explain.

Good. If God has led you into the Roman Catholic Church, He has His reasons for you to be there. Others are not led into the Roman Catholic Church, but are still being led by Him. THis is something you fail to recognize each time you speak against anything outside the RCC.

When personal beliefs are in sync with scripture, it is not dangerous.

You are not the Holy Spirit, nor do you understand all God is doing, yet you feel you can condemn those who don't agree that the RCC is the only true church. Your condemnation is not from God, but from the church doctrine you follow.

When two people hold different views, it could be that both are in error. You see black and white only. You claim that those who disagree with the Roman Catholic Church are wrong without ever considering that those who wrote the RCC doctrine could be wrong.

Many religions claim to have "Truth" and speak this in goodness and love. What does that mean? Are they doing what God wants them to do because they believe they are right?