Denominations?

[nebula]

I would follow Jesus wherever he leads, which is why I am a Catholic. Of course I would follow him out of the Church if that is where he led me.

Personal beliefs, ie. leaning on your own understanding, is a dangerous method of discernment.

The Holy Spirit does not lead different individuals to different truths. There is Truth and there is something else.

If two individuals hold contradictory views then both are not led by the Holy Spirit regarding these matters.

Do you think speaking the Truth is somehow opposed to goodness or love? If so, please explain.

The Lord isn't as hung up on denominations as we are. And He's a lot more patient with doctrinal differences than we are.

His main concern is our relationship to Him, and if your heart connects to Him better in your RCC church, then that's where He'll place you. But someone else's heart connects to Him better in the Baptist church across town, and another at the Evangelical Charismatic assembly in the next county over.

God is so much bigger than our hang-ups, quirks, and misguided doctrines.

[Fez]

Scripture can be used to justify almost anything.

You said it not me!

[nebula]

The Lord isn't as hung up on denominations as we are. And He's a lot more patient with doctrinal differences than we are.

His main concern is our relationship to Him, and if your heart connects to Him better in your RCC church, then that's where He'll place you. But someone else's heart connects to Him better in the Baptist church across town, and another at the Evangelical Charismatic assembly in the next county over.

God is so much bigger than our hang-ups, quirks, and misguided doctrines.

Jesus started a single Church and gave it leaders. Denominations were started by men who didn't like the leaders Jesus provided.

Faithless shepherds needed to be deserted - same as is written in the prophets.

This idea you have that popes are infallible and need to be blindly followed is not Scriptural at all!

People fled the Pope and the RCC because they realized they were alienated from God through the RCC. So they pursued Him and found Him.

Charismatic, contemplative, liturgical, etc. modes of worship are all available in the Church Jesus started.

"Charismatic" did not come through the RCC! If you believe it did, you need to research history better.

[OneLight]

chestertonrules

Question for you:

Would you follow Jesus into the Catholic Church if that is where he led you?

That's NOT going to happen because God won't lead people into a FALSE church. Look for the opposite - God leading people out of it.

http://carm.org/roman-catholicism

So you would not follow Jesus if he led you into the Church.

That's too bad.

I recommend that you ask God to give you the grace to follow wherever he leads.

It is truly sad when people bait each other like this. It would be no different if you weref asked if you would follow Jesus out of the Catholic Church. Both are traps against personal beliefs and is not of the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

I would follow Jesus wherever he leads, which is why I am a Catholic. Of course I would follow him out of the Church if that is where he led me.

Personal beliefs, ie. leaning on your own understanding, is a dangerous method of discernment.

The Holy Spirit does not lead different individuals to different truths. There is Truth and there is something else.

If two individuals hold contradictory views then both are not led by the Holy Spirit regarding these matters.

Do you think speaking the Truth is somehow opposed to goodness or love? If so, please explain.

Good. If God has led you into the Roman Catholic Church, He has His reasons for you to be there. Others are not led into the Roman Catholic Church, but are still being led by Him. THis is something you fail to recognize each time you speak against anything outside the RCC.

When personal beliefs are in sync with scripture, it is not dangerous.

You are not the Holy Spirit, nor do you understand all God is doing, yet you feel you can condemn those who don't agree that the RCC is the only true church. Your condemnation is not from God, but from the church doctrine you follow.

When two people hold different views, it could be that both are in error. You see black and white only. You claim that those who disagree with the Roman Catholic Church are wrong without ever considering that those who wrote the RCC doctrine could be wrong.

Many religions claim to have "Truth" and speak this in goodness and love. What does that mean? Are they doing what God wants them to do because they believe they are right?

Scripture can be used to justify almost anything. David Koresh and Jim Jones used scripture, for example.

Scripture can only be trusted if it is interpreted correctly, and personal opinions don't assure correct interpretations.

I would add some Popes to that list! They took upon themselves to be the only ones who can interpret scripture and everyone else had to follow whatever he said. Sounds a lot like Koresh and Jones to me.

When one follows the Holy Spirits teachings, and not their own understanding, there are no personal opinions. This is one thing you fail to recognize. Yet, there is not one person who can follow His Spirit perfectly, for we are still flesh and blood, where we see in a mirror, dimly, or we see through a glass, darkly, depending on which version you choose to read.

[Fez]

chestertonrules

Question for you:

Would you follow Jesus into the Catholic Church if that is where he led you?

That's NOT going to happen because God won't lead people into a FALSE church. Look for the opposite - God leading people out of it.

http://carm.org/roman-catholicism

So you would not follow Jesus if he led you into the Church.

That's too bad.

I recommend that you ask God to give you the grace to follow wherever he leads.

It is truly sad when people bait each other like this. It would be no different if you weref asked if you would follow Jesus out of the Catholic Church. Both are traps against personal beliefs and is not of the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

I would follow Jesus wherever he leads, which is why I am a Catholic. Of course I would follow him out of the Church if that is where he led me.

Personal beliefs, ie. leaning on your own understanding, is a dangerous method of discernment.

The Holy Spirit does not lead different individuals to different truths. There is Truth and there is something else.

If two individuals hold contradictory views then both are not led by the Holy Spirit regarding these matters.

Do you think speaking the Truth is somehow opposed to goodness or love? If so, please explain.

Good. If God has led you into the Roman Catholic Church, He has His reasons for you to be there. Others are not led into the Roman Catholic Church, but are still being led by Him. THis is something you fail to recognize each time you speak against anything outside the RCC.

When personal beliefs are in sync with scripture, it is not dangerous.

You are not the Holy Spirit, nor do you understand all God is doing, yet you feel you can condemn those who don't agree that the RCC is the only true church. Your condemnation is not from God, but from the church doctrine you follow.

When two people hold different views, it could be that both are in error. You see black and white only. You claim that those who disagree with the Roman Catholic Church are wrong without ever considering that those who wrote the RCC doctrine could be wrong.

Many religions claim to have "Truth" and speak this in goodness and love. What does that mean? Are they doing what God wants them to do because they believe they are right?

Scripture can be used to justify almost anything. David Koresh and Jim Jones used scripture, for example.

Scripture can only be trusted if it is interpreted correctly, and personal opinions don't assure correct interpretations.

I would add some Popes to that list! They took upon themselves to be the only ones who can interpret scripture and everyone else had to follow whatever he said. Sounds a lot like Koresh and Jones to me.

When one follows the Holy Spirits teachings, and not their own understanding, there are no personal opinions. This is one thing you fail to recognize. Yet, there is not one person who can follow His Spirit perfectly, for we are still flesh and blood, where we see in a mirror, dimly, or we see through a glass, darkly, depending on which version you choose to read.

Precisely OneLight!

Scripture can be used to justify almost anything

Here, read Pope!

[nebula]

"Charismatic" did not come through the RCC! If you believe it did, you need to research history better.

The Charismatic gifts have always been part of Christianity, and therefore, Catholicism.

I'm not sure what you mean.

OK, what do you know of the "Charismatic" gifts being manifested in the RCC before 1920 AD?

[OneLight]

When one follows the Holy Spirits teachings, and not their own understanding, there are no personal opinions. This is one thing you fail to recognize. Yet, there is not one person who can follow His Spirit perfectly, for we are still flesh and blood, where we see in a mirror, dimly, or we see through a glass, darkly, depending on which version you choose to read.

How do you assure yourself that you are listening to the Holy Spirit and not just following your own understanding?

Does scripture tell us how know that we are following the Spirit of Truth?

I think it does:

1 John 4

6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

This is what many have a hard time with. When God speaks to you, you know it. He never contradicts Himself or scripture. If one is in tune with His Spirit, it becomes easier to know when He speaks and when you speak. There is no foolproof way to prove it until the action begins to bear fruit or it causes harm. Then you will know. The same question can be asked about anyone who studies scripture. How do you know? How do you know you are saved? You hold your life up to scripture, so it is when you learn something new. You hold it up against scripture.

Yes, it does, but I would look at the fullness of scripture and not just one verse ... 1 John 4:1-6

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

[Dragoon]

Only the apostles were given the authority to forgive sins. They were also given the authority to bind and loose, which is basically the same thing.

The Holy Spirit works in all of our lives but we don't all have the same authority.

You spend a lot of time giving the RC viewpoint (as you understand it), but you seem ignorant of what the Bible says.

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. (James 5:15) This passage clearly does not refer to the Apostles.

Your views show a void in understanding about God. If this reflects your church, then I'm afraid you are only making it more clear why people have rejected Roman Catholicism.

James refers to calling the elders. The elders, or priests, have been granted authority by the apostles.

The apostles were given the authority to forgive sins in the name of Jesus, and they were given the authority to establish the Church.

I've learned a lot since my times as a born again Christian who followed Christ to the best of my ability.

Question for you:

Would you follow Jesus into the Catholic Church if that is where he led you?

Sorry for the delay... been on the road.

So, James refers to elders... which you then equate with priests! Would you kindly read your Bible so that you don't say such preposterous things!

There was a priesthood before Jesus... which He removed, because there was no longer need for a mediator between man and God.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5)

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

(Hebrews 9:15)

HE is our High Priest, and each of us is now able to come before God clothed in Christ's righteousness.

...in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption (1 Cor 1:30)

You may want to note that the curtain which separated the Holy of Holies from the people was torn in two when Christ was crucified.

With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last. The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. (Mark 15:37-38)

Do you think Christ removed the barrier between God and man... so that a 'priesthood' could come between them again?

There is a new priesthood. It is the body of Christ, and is made up of all who follow and believe in Him.

...you (God’s elect, strangers in the world) also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:5)

You've learned a lot... unfortunately what you have learned is in contradiction to God's word.

Would I follow Jesus into the Roman Catholic Church if that is where he led me? Of course.

Right now He is making it very clear that the Roman Catholic Church is far from Him.

Do you notice that people keep referring you to scripture... and your answer is 'the church says'. You seem to have become confused between Jesus' voice and the voice of men.

Might I ask you;

When is the last time you've read your Bible?

[Dragoon]

Scripture can be used to justify almost anything. David Koresh and Jim Jones used scripture, for example.

Scripture can only be trusted if it is interpreted correctly, and personal opinions don't assure correct interpretations.

Scripture can be twisted to justify anything, but scripture itself is pretty clear.

Merely because unstable people take passages out of context does not mean the scriptures are unreliable.

There is guidance and discernment needed though... and that is from the Holy Spirit.

[nebula]

OK, what do you know of the "Charismatic" gifts being manifested in the RCC before 1920 AD?

Miracles, including healing, have occurred throughout the history of the Church.

http://www.discover-catholic-miracles.com/

http://www.miraclesofthechurch.com/

When one says "charismatic" one thinks of speaking in tongues, experiencing God's presence in such a way that you fall to the floor, prophecying, etc.

How much of that existed before the Azusa Street meetings?