OldEnglishSheepdog Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building. Who are the co-workers? Who is God's field? I think you shot yourself in the foot again. Chesterton, what are you talking about? The individual believers are both God's field and temple. The Apostles are co-workers with the other believers. How you think this demonstrates that I've shot myself in the foot can only be imagined, since you don't even try to demonstrate how so. So while I await your clarification as to what was the point you were trying to make with eager anticipation and bated breath, can you please answer the questions I've asked for the THIRD time now? We're looking at 1 Corinthians and in 1 Corinthians 3 does it or does it not say that the apostles are nothing but co-workers, there is no foundation other than Christ and that we should not deceive ourselves and boast in human leaders as though they were something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 All the early Christians belonged to a single Church. Guess which one it was!! They called themselves "Followers of the Way." They were called Catholics (universal) Scripture uses the word Way as those who followed Christ and the teachings of the Apostles. Man denoted the term Catholic for the Way. Welcome to Worthy. The name you use is irrelevant. What matters is that we recognize one holy and apostolic church. The followers of the way were part of the catholic body of Christ. Serious, stop pushing your Catholic propaganda. You're going to ruin yet another thread with your habitual, unscriptural dogmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 Paul clearly deliniates between the Church leaders and those who follow them. The apostles are co-workers with God. chesterton, you're entitle to your own opinions but not your own facts. What it says is that the apostles are nothing, that God is everything and that the Apostles are "co-workers in God’s service", not co-workers with God and it goes on to say that the believers are the church built on the foundation of Christ. This language is mirrored exactly by Peter himself when he calls himself a 'fellow elder' not with apostles but with elders of the church, and then proceeds to describe all individual believers as a holy priesthood that are living stones built on the foundation of Christ, in 1 Peter 2:4-10. Therefore the Apostles disagree with you, so if we're to follow those sent by Jesus we have to reject what you're saying. Your argument fails not only by my criteria but notably also by your own. Their standing in the Church is unique. "... neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow... we are co-workers in God’s service... So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God." You and I are not apostles. We are to follow their message, not fabricate our own message. Chesterton, I know that you advertise and celebrate the fact that you've resigned your understanding to another, so I appreciate the necessary and inescapable result of that being that you're either disallowed or incapable of thinking rationally anymore, but if you could just try to pay attention for a second, then whatever part of your reasoning you haven't abandon to your institution will clearly see the contradiction here. No one is allowed to fabricate a message, Apostles or otherwise. That's the point of Galatians 1 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ" (Galatians 1:8-10). If we totally grant without qualification that the Apostles' authority was unique, it does no damage whatsoever to the point I'm actually making which is that God has stated that no one is allowed to fabricate their own message and qualified that this includes Apostles, so your point fails utterly and my question remains and I'll ask it a FOURTH time: does this passage or does it not state that the apostles are nothing but co-workers, there is no foundation other than Christ and that we should not deceive ourselves and boast in human leaders as though they were something? 1 Thessalonians 5:12 Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. 1 Cor 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Heb 13 17Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. Once again you're running away from the passages in question. Once again we've seen time and time again how you're misinterpreting the passages you try to flee to, but the passages we're looking at right now are in 1 Corinthians. Can something be both true and false at the same time? If not, then let's see what scripture says here instead of finding a contradicting interpretation elsewhere and fleeing to that. If scripture is true (and we both agree that it is), then if you were right you'll be able to prove your point here just as well as anywhere else you'd flee to, so show me how this passage doesn't state what we've seen it states which completely contradicts your interpretation. So, please finally answer the question: does this passage or does it not state that the apostles are nothing but co-workers, there is no foundation other than Christ and that we should not deceive ourselves and boast in human leaders as though they were something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2011 All the early Christians belonged to a single Church. Guess which one it was!! They called themselves "Followers of the Way." They were called Catholics (universal) Scripture uses the word Way as those who followed Christ and the teachings of the Apostles. Man denoted the term Catholic for the Way. Welcome to Worthy. The name you use is irrelevant. What matters is that we recognize one holy and apostolic church. The followers of the way were part of the catholic body of Christ. Your statement tells me that you believe scripture is irrelevant for it is scripture that makes such a claim. To correct you last statement, the universal church, the catholic church, is part of the Way, not the other way around. You are putting the cart before the hose again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted October 21, 2011 It's time for another reminder: The RCC is NOT and never has been the TRUE CHURCH. The RCC is rife with FALSE TEACHING, FALSE DOCTRINES, FALSE TRADITIONS, AND ACTIONS THAT GOD STATES ARE EVIL AND WICKED (i.e. idol worship, prayers to the dead, glorification of man, and the list goes on and on.) I, for one, am getting sick of the continual promotion and advertising of the Catholic Church. This is a Christian forum - NOT a Catholic forum, and there are serious doubts that Catholics could even be called Christians when using God's Word as the measuring stick. Go to the links provided below and study them line by line - point by point - and compare the information given to the heavily documented Scriptures that are provided. People need to know the truth about the Catholic church, and you can find the truth in the links below. The RCC is drunk on the blood of the saints. Determine the true identity of the RCC by studying Revelation 17. http://carm.org/roman-catholicism http://carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted October 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted October 21, 2011 His thread has run is course severial times over. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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