The INCARNATION!~

[Orr v'emet]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary is the mother of God?

where does the bible list which books of the bible are to be included in the bible?

In the table of contents usually!

Seriously, I suspected you would say this so I won't go down this road with you. I'm gonna let God-man take the lead on this while I become the observer.

[ServingHim]

The RC has taught this very thing since the term "Mary, Mother of God" was coined at the second Ecumenical Council.

Mary is Theotokos, the Mother of God...representing the Nestorian position condemned as heresy at the Council of Ephesus on June 22, 431 A.D.

did you know that Mary, the Mother of God was taught LONG BEFORE this council?

Irenaeus: "The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God" (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus: "[T]o all generations they [the prophets] have pictured forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and God-bearing (theotokos) Mary in the way of birth and growth, and the manner of his life and conversation with men, and his manifestation by baptism, and the new birth that was to be to all men, and the regeneration by the laver [of baptism]" (Discourse on the End of the World 1 [A.D. 217]).

and it carried right along for the next 1300 years...where MARTIN LUTHER wrote in 1539 in a treatise entitled "Of Councils and Churches"

"Hence this council [of Ephesus] did not establish anything new in the faith, but defended the ancient faith against the new vagueness of Nestorius. Indeed the article according to which Mary is MOTHER OF GOD has been in the Church from the beginning and has not been newly produced by the council but on the contrary contained in the gospel or in Holy Scripture.

"For in St. Luke [1:32] we find that the angel Gabriel announces to the Virgin that she must bear the Son of the Most High and Elizabeth says: 'whence comes it that the Mother of the Lord should come to me?' And the angels at Christmas together sing: 'unto us is born this day a Saviour which is Christ the Lord.'

"In the same way St. Paul [Gal 4:4] -- 'God has sent his Son, born of a woman.' These words which I hold to be true surely support quite strongly that MARY IS THE MOTHER OF GOD."

:il:

[ServingHim]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary is the mother of God?

where does the bible list which books of the bible are to be included in the bible?

In the table of contents usually!

:D

Seriously, I suspected you would say this so I won't go down this road with you. I'm gonna let God-man take the lead on this while I become the observer.

that's too bad...I wish you'd stay...really. Knowing ALL THE TRUTH is so much better than knowing only the parts we're comfortable with.

[ServingHim]

As Catholics, we firmly believe in the incarnation of our Lord: Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. (Lk 1:26-38 and Mt 1:18-25) Through her, Jesus Christ--second person of the Holy Trinity, one-in-being (consubstantial) with the Father, and true God from true God--entered this world, taking on human flesh and a human soul. Jesus is true God and true man. In His person are united both a divine nature and a human nature.

Mary did not create the divine person of Jesus, who existed with the Father from all eternity. "In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly 'Mother of God' (Theotokos)" (CCC, No. 495). As St. John wrote, "The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us, and we have seen His glory: The glory of an only Son coming from the Father filled with enduring love" (Jn 1:14).

For this reason, sometime in the early history of the Church, our Blessed Mother was given the title "Mother of God." St. John Chrysostom (d. 407), for example, composed in his Eucharistic Prayer for the Mass an anthem in honor of her: "It is truly just to proclaim you blessed, O Mother of God, who are most blessed, all pure and Mother of our God. We magnify you who are more honorable than the Cherubim and incomparably more glorious than the Seraphim. You who, without losing your virginity, gave birth to the Word of God. You who are truly the Mother of God."

However, objection to the title "Mother of God" arose in the fifth century, due to confusion concerning the mystery of the incarnation. Nestorius, Bishop of Constantinople (428-431), incited a major controversy. He stated that Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, a regular human person, period. To this human person was united the person of the Word of God (the divine Jesus). This union of two persons--the human Christ and the divine Word-- was "sublime and unique" but merely accidental. The divine person dwelt in the human person "as in a temple." Following his own reasoning, Nestorius asserted that the human Jesus died on the cross, not the divine Jesus. As such, Mary is not "Mother of God," but simply "Mother of Christ"--the human Jesus. Sound confusing? It is, but the result is the splitting of Christ into two persons and the denial of the incarnation.

St. Cyril, Bishop of Alexandria (d. 440) refuted Nestorius, asserting, "It was not that an ordinary man was born first of the Holy Virgin, on whom afterwards the Word descended; what we say is that, being united with the flesh from the womb, (the Word) has undergone birth in the flesh, making the birth in the flesh His own..." This statement affirms the belief asserted in the first paragraph.

On June 22, 431, the Council of Ephesus convened to settle this argument. The Council declared, "If anyone does not confess that the Emmanuel is truly God and therefore that the holy Virgin is the Mother of God (Theotokos) (since she begot according to the flesh the Word of God made flesh), anathema sit." Therefore, the Council officially recognized that Jesus is one person, with two natures--human and divine--united in a true union. Second, Ephesus affirmed that our Blessed Mother can rightfully be called the Mother of God. Mary is not Mother of God, the Father, or Mother of God, the Holy Spirit; rather, she is Mother of God, the Son--Jesus Christ. The Council of Ephesus declared Nestorius a heretic, and the Emperor Theodosius ordered him deposed and exiled. (Interestingly, a small Nestorian Church still exists in Iraq, Iran and Syria.)

The incarnation is indeed a profound mystery. The Church uses very precise--albeit philosophical--language to prevent confusion and error. Nevertheless, as we celebrate Christmas, we must ponder this great mystery of how our divine Savior entered this world, taking on our human flesh, to free us from sin. We must also ponder and emulate the great example of our Blessed Mother, who said, "I am the handmaid of the Lord; be it done unto me according to Thy word."

[Orr v'emet]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary is the mother of God?

where does the bible list which books of the bible are to be included in the bible?

In the table of contents usually!

:D

Seriously, I suspected you would say this so I won't go down this road with you. I'm gonna let God-man take the lead on this while I become the observer.

that's too bad...I wish you'd stay...really. Knowing ALL THE TRUTH is so much better than knowing only the parts we're comfortable with.

So I couldn't keep quiet. Oh well. I happen to have a firm grip on the Truth, it's just the propaganda that you put forth that I'm not so educated on.

For this reason, sometime in the early history of the Church, our Blessed Mother was given the title "Mother of God."

Precisely, she was given this title by a regular ol man. She was not given this title by God.

[Born Again]

I think there is ENTIRELY too much emphasis placed on Mary- yes, she was a vessel of God, but aren't we all as Christians?

Last time I checked, Jesus died on the cross- not Mary. Let's glorify the One who died on the cross to save you and I, not His earthly mother. Besides, it's all about HIM :il:

[Orr v'emet]

I think there is ENTIRELY too much emphasis placed on Mary- yes, she was a vessel of God, but aren't we all as Christians?

Last time I checked, Jesus died on the cross- not Mary. Let's glorify the One who died on the cross to save you and I, not His earthly mother. Besides, it's all about HIM :il:

For Real!

[ServingHim]

it's just the propaganda that you put forth that I'm not so educated on.

it's okay to not be educated on them, but to vehemently deny them based on personal opinion would not be wise... If you've not educated yourself on this doctrine of Truth, then you might want to further look into it rather than discard it as false...lest you deny part of the faith.

For this reason, sometime in the early history of the Church, our Blessed Mother was given the title "Mother of God."

Precisely, she was given this title by a regular ol man. She was not given this title by God.

and the title of Trinity was also given by a 'regular ol man', as it is NOT DEFINED as such in the bible, according to the logic you've used....

[Orr v'emet]

Oh boy. Gimme a break. The Truth as I know it is not based on my personal opinion though that would be a thought for you since your only opinion is that of the catholic church. The Truth as I know it is direct from the Bible and the Holy Spirit. But of course, you don't believe the bible as the sole authority so once again we come at a standstill. Carry on...

[ServingHim]

I think there is ENTIRELY too much emphasis placed on Mary- yes, she was a vessel of God, but aren't we all as Christians?

For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; Luke 1:48

And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord." Luke 1:45

So, born again, HOW MUCH is TOO MUCH? and WHAT IS NOT ENOUGH? How do YOU, a self-proclaimed Christian behold Mary as BLESSED? How do you do this? How do you 'call her blessed'? How do YOU HONOR HER...because as a follower of Christ, we're to OBEY HIM, and be LIKE HIM...and HE SAID ... 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Matt 19:19 ... Christ CERTAINLY HONORS HIS MOTHER, EVEN STILL...so shouldn't we do the same...?

Since Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, then it was the Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity, who supplied the words with which Elizabeth spoke. Consequently it was the Holy Spirit who really called Blessed Mary, the Mother of GOD.

Mary had now been called "Blessed" by GOD the Father, the First Person, and by the Holy Spirit, the Third Person, as she carried the Second Person in her womb.

The Holy Trinity was well represented in these verses.

Name another woman who conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit? Luke 1:35-38

Name another mother who carried the Divine Person of GOD in her womb for nine months?

Name another mother, whose child she carried, was the cause of a child in another mothers womb to leap for joy? Luke 1:44

Name another mother who gave birth to a person with two natures, one human and one divine?

Name another mother from whom Jesus Christ received all of His genes?

Name another mother from whom Jesus Christ received His flesh, blood, and bone?

He is bone of her bone and flesh of her flesh.

Name another mother from whom He received His eyes with which to see, His ears with which to hear, and His mouth with which to speak to us?

Name another mother who gave us our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ? Without her we would have no Savior and no Gospel, just as without your mother there would be no you reading this now.

Name another mother who retained her perpetual virginity from conception to the birth of her child, and then forever after?

Name another mother who is so calumnized by non-Catholics who insist that she had other children besides the Lord Jesus Christ, when in fact she did not?

Name another mother who could look down upon the infant Creator of the universe as she held him in her arms? All other mothers have looked up to GOD, not down.

Name another mother in which the Creator of the universe was subject to her for many years? Luke 2:51

Name another mother who nursed the Creator of the universe and bathed Him?

Name another mother who tucked in the Second Person of the Holy Trinity every night for years?

Name another mother who taught the Creator of the universe the same things that all mothers teach their children? Luke 2:51-52

Name another mother who, for thirty years, told the creator of the universe what to do?

Name another mother who served the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, three meals a day?

Name another mother who sat across the table from the Holy Trinity every day for years at each meal? Think about it? Can the three persons of the Holy Trinity be separated? Are they three separate persons or are they three inseparable persons in one GOD? Since we all know that they are distinct but not separate, then all three persons are present wherever one is.

Name another mother who lived with the Second Person of the Holy Trinity for 30 years?

Just imagine, Jesus taught His disciples for only 3 years, but He taught His mother for many more.

Name another mother who started the Creator of the universe on His ministry? John 2:3-11

Name another mother who was assumed into Heaven body and soul?

After all of this, how could anyone ever say, Mary is just a mother like any other mother?

Now I will ask those detractors, "Do you still think she was a mother just like any other mother?"

Now do you still wish to ask why Catholics venerate the Mother of GOD ?

Last time I checked, Jesus died on the cross- not Mary.

no one said Mary died on the cross...but she suffered greatly, AND it was prophesied that her suffering would be great. 34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against 35 (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed." Luke 2:33-35 (RSV)

Let's glorify the One who died on the cross to save you and I, not His earthly mother. Besides, it's all about HIM :il:

we DO glorify HIM when we love and honor HIS OWN MOTHER...HIS CREATION...just as we glorify HIM when we love one another and honor one another.