The Purpose of the Tribulation

[Guest]

According to Jeremiah 30:11 the purpose of the Great Tribulation is two-fold. One is to completely destroy the nations among which the Jews have been scattered, and the other is to discipline Israel. This discipline will cause them to recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and will happen in several stages.

The first is when as a nation they return to their Old Covenant relationship with God following the Battle of Ezekiel 38 (Ezekiel 39:22) prompting the building of a Temple in Israel. This when Daniel’s 70th Week will begin. The second is when they petition God’s return to save them (Hosea 6:1-2), and the third is near the end of the Great Tribulation when they realize that Jesus has been their Messiah all along (Zechariah 12:10). The source.

[Guest]

An

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. Revelation 11:7-10

Awe Moment

And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. Revelation 11:11-12

In The Life Of His Beloved Israel

Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 31:20

[Matthitjah]

According to Jeremiah 30:11 the purpose of the Great Tribulation is two-fold.

Prove it, line upon line and precept upon precept, please.

Does God bring the Great Tribulation or does He merely allow it?

Re 12:12

¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Is the Great Tribulation the same as Gods Wrath?

I'm not challenging you. I'm asking for clarity.

Peace,

Dave

[Massorite]

According to Jeremiah 30:11 the purpose of the Great Tribulation is two-fold.

Prove it, line upon line and precept upon precept, please.

Does God bring the Great Tribulation or does He merely allow it?

Re 12:12

¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Is the Great Tribulation the same as Gods Wrath?

I'm not challenging you. I'm asking for clarity.

Peace,

Dave

I believe that God will both bring and allow the great tribulation. He will bring great tribulation to the unbeliever and allows it where the saints are concerned. No matter what one believes pre or mid tribulation there will be saint here on earth during the great tribulation. So with that in mind it is my belief that God through that great tribulation will also seperate the men from the boys (so to speak) because only those Christians who endure to the end will recieve the reward.

As for Jeremiah 30:11 I don't think this verse has anything to do with the great tribulation and I base that on the fact that this verse says nothing at all about any great tribulation with regards to Isreal being punished by it. Not in the preceeding verses nor in the following verses but it is a prophecy about the future of Isreal. I don't believe that the great tribulation is for the punishment of Isreal at all but I do believe it is to do the same thing that God has done to Isreal from the beginning. By showing great signs and wonders God has always glorified himself in an effort to turn the heads of Isreal. Will Isreal be punished? Yes!

Isreal will be in charge of cleaning up the mess left behind by Armageddon. They will have to go out and burn all of the weapons and bury all of the stinking rotting dead bodies left from the battle.

[glf]

According to Jeremiah 30:11 the purpose of the Great Tribulation is two-fold.

Prove it, line upon line and precept upon precept, please.

Does God bring the Great Tribulation or does He merely allow it?

Re 12:12

¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Is the Great Tribulation the same as Gods Wrath?

I'm not challenging you. I'm asking for clarity.

Peace,

Dave

I believe that God will both bring and allow the great tribulation. He will bring great tribulation to the unbeliever and allows it where the saints are concerned. No matter what one believes pre or mid tribulation there will be saint here on earth during the great tribulation. So with that in mind it is my belief that God through that great tribulation will also seperate the men from the boys (so to speak) because only those Christians who endure to the end will recieve the reward.

As for Jeremiah 30:11 I don't think this verse has anything to do with the great tribulation and I base that on the fact that this verse says nothing at all about any great tribulation with regards to Isreal being punished by it. Not in the preceeding verses nor in the following verses but it is a prophecy about the future of Isreal. I don't believe that the great tribulation is for the punishment of Isreal at all but I do believe it is to do the same thing that God has done to Isreal from the beginning. By showing great signs and wonders God has always glorified himself in an effort to turn the heads of Isreal. Will Isreal be punished? Yes!

Isreal will be in charge of cleaning up the mess left behind by Armageddon. They will have to go out and burn all of the weapons and bury all of the stinking rotting dead bodies left from the battle.

When Jesus returns during the battle of Armageddon with a Sword in his mouth, he will destroy those who are of the evil one and will while they are yet standing have the eyes consumed in their holes and the tongues consumed in their mouths, ie... no mess to clean up. Then, like after the flood, only the mortal faithful will be left to repopulate the Earth with Jesus ruling from Jerusalem on the throne of David. The Great Tribulation such as the world has never known nor never will know is a judgment from the Lord, as the four horsemen of the apocalypse are angles and then there are the trumpet judgments and then the bowl judgments and finally the vial judgments to be poured out upon the Earth also by angels. Except those days be shortened there shall no flesh survive. So the Tribulation is shortened somewhat to allow those who have turned to Jesus during this time to survive and continue procreating mankind, who will be ruled over by Jesus and the Church which will return with him.

Mortal mankind will be ruled over by the Lord Jesus and the Church, whose incorruptible and immortal members will, I suspect, be the preachers and the police and the judges, who will go by the intent of the law-breakers heart during the millennium reign of our great King, Jesus. I also suspect that there will be no more serial killers or habitual criminals as judgment will come swiftly after the first offense. So, Jesus will both rule from Jerusalem and at the same time, he will be with us alway, even unto the end of the world. Philip was translated from one place to another after talking with the eunuch from Ethiopia, so I also suspect that we will with a thought instantly travel to Jesus or anyplace on the Earth or elsewhere in all of creation for that matter and our thoughts will as always be available to the Lord and his thoughts will now be available to us; like telepathy. Jesus come quickly, in Jesus' name.

Edited October 17, 2011 by glf

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Neither one of you have offered any scriptural support for your stance that Israel will be punished.

Does God want to punish Israel or does he want to be Merciful to them? I can't tell from your stance, but I can from the Word.

I need re-proof.

Please tell me Biblically and with scriptural reference why God allows Tribulation. Is it to punish or is it to correct?

What is the ultimate Judicial Punishment biblically speaking?

I'll give you a hint;

2Th 2:12

That they all might be condemned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God doesn't want to punish Israel. He want's them to come to Christ. The condemnation has already been laid out.

Why do you appear to want to punish whom God does not?

Peace,

Dave

[~candice~]

Is the Great Tribulation the same as Gods Wrath?

I've never seen a scripture supporting this and I don't believe it.

[Matthitjah]

Is the Great Tribulation the same as Gods Wrath?

I've never seen a scripture supporting this and I don't believe it.

I agree sis.

[~candice~]

Is the Great Tribulation the same as Gods Wrath?

I've never seen a scripture supporting this and I don't believe it.

I agree sis.

I am open to having a pre tribber explain how the exegete this biblically.

[Matthitjah]

Here's something else pertinent;

Re 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they who came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If it were Gods Wrath they would have escaped because we are not appointed unto Wrath;

1Th 5:9

For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

In passing through the Great Tribulation these Saints appear to have obtained their Salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. They washed their robes of Rightesouness in His atoning Blood. Hallelujah!

Here's something more;

Php 2:5

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Php 2:6

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not a thing to be grasped to be equal with God:

Php 2:7

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Php 2:8

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Php 2:9

Therefore God also has highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Why do we wish to escape the pattern? We want to fly away and watch Israel be punished? Nonsense.

Beautiful are the feet;

Isa 52:7

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!