Is The Bride the restrainer?

[Floatingaxe]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I don't see this as correct. Who will seal us in Him? Who will convict the world of sin? Who will teach us all truth? Who will empower us in service? Who will be here to witness to the lost?

I have not been of the school of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture for more years then not. I don't know when the rapture will occur, but I don't see in scripture that we will be taken away before the tribulation. I believe that God will protect His own during times of trouble, not remove us when the tribulation comes, or the beast appears.

How were all the OT believers sealed? How were they convicted of their sin?

The two prophets. The 144,000.

[OneLight]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I don't see this as correct. Who will seal us in Him? Who will convict the world of sin? Who will teach us all truth? Who will empower us in service? Who will be here to witness to the lost?

I have not been of the school of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture for more years then not. I don't know when the rapture will occur, but I don't see in scripture that we will be taken away before the tribulation. I believe that God will protect His own during times of trouble, not remove us when the tribulation comes, or the beast appears.

How were all the OT believers sealed? How were they convicted of their sin?

The two prophets. The 144,000.

They were not. Can you show me where it states in scripture where Christ removes Himself and His Spirit during the last seven or three and a half years? I can show scripture where He says that He will never leave nor forsake us. People do follow Christ until the very end. The two Prophets and the 144,000 are for the Jewish people. What about the rest of the world?

[Floatingaxe]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I don't see this as correct. Who will seal us in Him? Who will convict the world of sin? Who will teach us all truth? Who will empower us in service? Who will be here to witness to the lost?

I have not been of the school of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture for more years then not. I don't know when the rapture will occur, but I don't see in scripture that we will be taken away before the tribulation. I believe that God will protect His own during times of trouble, not remove us when the tribulation comes, or the beast appears.

How were all the OT believers sealed? How were they convicted of their sin?

The two prophets. The 144,000.

They were not. Can you show me where it states in scripture where Christ removes Himself and His Spirit during the last seven or three and a half years? I can show scripture where He says that He will never leave nor forsake us. People do follow Christ until the very end. The two Prophets and the 144,000 are for the Jewish people. What about the rest of the world?

He won't leave or forsake us! We will be with Him in those seven years. His Spirit will be in us, and taken from the world.

The two prophets and the 144,000 are indeed for Israel, and so is that entire seven year period. God will not be dealing with the Gentile, but many will still be saved by the ministry of the evangelism and the call to repentance that will be going on.

[OneLight]

After over 30 years of researching the "rapture", I cannot find any place in scripture where it tells us we will be caught up before the tribulation starts. To me, and I was a pre-tribber, this is the weakest stance of the main three.

I guess we will have to remain the same as a couple of years ago when we went through this same discussion ... agree to disagree.

[joi]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I suppose that is a possibility. . . and is actually the best explanation I have heard on this particular matter, so far.

The law didnt declare anyone righteous, it was never meant as a tool of salvation. Its always been faith that brings us into a relationship with Him, not the Torah, nor any legal obedience to anything. Its only by His grace, through faith and through His Spirit that we are saved. God didnt give Abraham a covenant based on anything but faith, not even the 'sign' of circumcision was about salvation. Revert back to the time before Messiah? we are already there in most countries. How did God deal with Adam and Eve before Israel? how did God deal with Moses, Issac, Jacob, the 12 sons? By sending His Spirit, His Son, God is not going to take away His voice on this earth ever. God didn't declare anyone righteous by the Torah, Torah is instructions for daily living not for salvation.

shalom,

Mizz

Mizz, the highlighted is what I thought Floatingaxe was taking about in her post. Did I miss something?

[joi]

After over 30 years of researching the "rapture", I cannot find any place in scripture where it tells us we will be caught up before the tribulation starts. To me, and I was a pre-tribber, this is the weakest stance of the main three.

I guess we will have to remain the same as a couple of years ago when we went through this same discussion ... agree to disagree.

The op was not posted to mean emphatically that the Bride is the restrainer, though I found it an interesting article.

Sometimes in our discussions I pick up a little something along the way. I am, after all, a work in process. Like you I no longer believe in a pre-trib rapture. I believe that God will gather us together when He chooses and I can live with that. I could not live with the inability to make sense of a pre-trib rapture, when I could not find that in Scripture.

I do believe however that God's Holy Spirit restrains the rise of the antichrist and the tribulation, until His timing comes to fruition.

[OneLight]

I have seen bibles that capitalize He and others that use he when referring to the restrainer. When I checked the Greek, they use "the one-DOWN-HAVING" or more modern "the one-detaining".

When one sees "He", then it is proper to see the translator referring to God since they capitalize the word. This is understandable until one digs back to the Greek where the word "one" is not capitalized, not given the appearance of God.

I am still out on who the restrainer really is.

[mizzdy]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I suppose that is a possibility. . . and is actually the best explanation I have heard on this particular matter, so far.

The law didnt declare anyone righteous, it was never meant as a tool of salvation. Its always been faith that brings us into a relationship with Him, not the Torah, nor any legal obedience to anything. Its only by His grace, through faith and through His Spirit that we are saved. God didnt give Abraham a covenant based on anything but faith, not even the 'sign' of circumcision was about salvation. Revert back to the time before Messiah? we are already there in most countries. How did God deal with Adam and Eve before Israel? how did God deal with Moses, Issac, Jacob, the 12 sons? By sending His Spirit, His Son, God is not going to take away His voice on this earth ever. God didn't declare anyone righteous by the Torah, Torah is instructions for daily living not for salvation.

shalom,

Mizz

Mizz, the highlighted is what I thought Floatingaxe was taking about in her post. Did I miss something?

What I got was that the two prophets and the 144 thousand were the only things Floatingaxe sees during the millennial reign and thats just not correct. We find the prophets are slain during one time period although I do agree that the 144 will be doing His work during the great trib, but I do not nor will ever agree that God will take His Spirit away during this time. If after all we are still here during this time and I think we are, will He take His Spirit from us also? And the idea that the Torah was there to bring anyone to salvation is wrong also, the law never declared anyone saved it points us to how we are to live our lives according to Him but never to bring salvation to anyone.

shalom,

Mizz

[just_fish]

Because Paul uses the word "what" first and then "he" (small "h," no capital), I believe Paul is not speaking about Jesus or the Holy Spirit. It appears that someone is doing the removing, and whom can remove Christ?

It kinda seems there may be multiple things involved, but I think it to be a reference to Michael.

We as the "Church" have no restraining power over Satan, it must be spirit oriented as Satan is.

Just a thought.

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Job 5:17

Edited January 26, 2012 by just_fish

[benny balerio]

Because Paul uses the word "what" first and then "he" (small "h," no capital), I believe Paul is not speaking about Jesus or the Holy Spirit. It appears that someone is doing the removing, and whom can remove Christ?

It kinda seems there may be multiple things involved, but I think it to be a reference to Michael.

We as the "Church" have no restraining power over Satan, it must be spirit oriented as Satan is.

Just a thought.

___________________________________________________________________________

Job 5:17

We know that the holy spirit is omnipresent and was present before the creation of the world.

The old testament saints,..where worthy of heaven when they had lived and died in faith.Their works followed them.King David cried out that the Holy Spirit would not be taken from him when he had committed adultery.Under the Mosiac Law,....if you committed one sin,...then it was like committing them all.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The comforter is the Holy Spirit, but yet keep in mind that the Holy spirit is omnipresent.

This means that the Holy Spirit(Comforter)had a special task to do on earth!

And on the day of Pentecost,...The church age was born!

Each person who comes to the cross of calvary and ask's the Lord into their heart,...the Holy Spirit seals them with the promise.

And when the Comforter 's task is completed on this earth,(The Fullness of the Gentiles)...The Holy Spirit indwelt Bride which hinders the revealing of the son of perdition,....is taken out of the way.

This usage is that of God"s Spirit carrying someone away. We see this usage illustrated in Acts 8:39 where Philip, upon completion of the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch,...and the Holy Spirit indwells each believer,.and when He is taken out of the way...The Holy Spirit takes the Bride with Him.

The church age will be over,the bride caught up into the air to meet the Lord.

The Holy spirit is still omnipresent,...and those who were left behind will have one of the greatest incentives the world has ever wittnessed to come to Christ Jesus...THE RAPTURE!.

But things will revert back to the way it was before the church age had began on the day of Pentecost.