The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[enoob57]

Eternal Security is true but it comes with conditions. We don't like conditions. We think it means you have to work for something and we realize that we cannot earn anything through our works. So instead we take away the "conditions" and try to make it so black and white that even we can't rebel, disobey, or walk away. However, sadly, that is simply not true. It is a gift in that we cannot earn it, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing required of us at all.

Ro 5:15-17

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

NKJV

Perhaps you struggle with the word free

Paradigm is not salvation and works but the salvation and sanctifcation... You see if Jesus is within us, by the free gift of just asking Him to come into us, then His presence will be seen by that which we do! If we do not do the things He did then we may doubt, as others, the reality of the asking! Love, Steven

[unworthy2]

Eternal Security is true but it comes with conditions. We don't like conditions. We think it means you have to work for something and we realize that we cannot earn anything through our works. So instead we take away the "conditions" and try to make it so black and white that even we can't rebel, disobey, or walk away. However, sadly, that is simply not true. It is a gift in that we cannot earn it, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing required of us at all.

Ro 5:15-17

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

NKJV

Perhaps you struggle with the word free

Paradigm is not salvation and works but the salvation and sanctifcation... You see if Jesus is within us, by the free gift of just asking Him to come into us, then His presence will be seen by that which we do! If we do not do the things He did then we may doubt, as others, the reality of the asking! Love, Steven

so you are saying once we receive the free gift that God doesn't expect anything of us? After we are saved we live how we want?

There are two extremes:

I have to work to keep it

I don't have to do anything to keep it

I am somewhere in the middle. I understand that I cannot earn it and "keeping it" is not by my works, yet I also understand that the commands of God are for me and therefore there are things that are expected of me.

[enoob57]

Eternal Security is true but it comes with conditions. We don't like conditions. We think it means you have to work for something and we realize that we cannot earn anything through our works. So instead we take away the "conditions" and try to make it so black and white that even we can't rebel, disobey, or walk away. However, sadly, that is simply not true. It is a gift in that we cannot earn it, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing required of us at all.

Ro 5:15-17

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

NKJV

Perhaps you struggle with the word free

Paradigm is not salvation and works but the salvation and sanctifcation... You see if Jesus is within us, by the free gift of just asking Him to come into us, then His presence will be seen by that which we do! If we do not do the things He did then we may doubt, as others, the reality of the asking! Love, Steven

so you are saying once we receive the free gift that God doesn't expect anything of us? After we are saved we live how we want?

There are two extremes:

I have to work to keep it

I don't have to do anything to keep it

I am somewhere in the middle. I understand that I cannot earn it and "keeping it" is not by my works, yet I also understand that the commands of God are for me and therefore there are things that are expected of me.

I can think of no better place than in the needing, seeking, striving in our Lord Jesus The Christ -> for I understand Jesus sees this as expressed love for Him... The purest love is of no fear and as you examine His place within you is this what you find or is it the pressure of performance to maintain acceptance with Him? One must deny himself to be able to hear more clearly the spiritual urgings of His desires for you and the most precious spot is when next to His Bossom you realize you have given up all that is worthless and have received everything... 'The true Pearl of Great Price'

Php 3:8-9

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

KJV

I love this word dung for it is the perfect word to describe what I have given up in order to gain relationship to Christ Jesus!

Love, Steven

[enoob57]

The Bible does not have any contradictions, but one can correctly state that it appears to. It does come down to rightly dividing the Word of truth. I have been seeking answers to this question of OSAS verses doctrines whereby one can lose their salvation for years, and have listened to both sides. The missing link, for no better way to describe it, is predestination and election, as is found in Romans. Most don't want to believe that if you are saved, it is because God chose you, and you didn't choose him, but that is exactly what scripture says. If you can accept that as true, the rest falls into place. Those that God enlightened will accept Jesus as their savior, and live for him. Those that God did not choose will either reject Christ entirely, have a superficial head knowledge without a relationship, or fall away when persecutions arise. It is all according to God's sovereign will. He is the potter, and we are but clay. It was only my intellect that caused me to take so long to accept the truth. I had done the same thing most others have, put God into a box or my own pre-conceived ideas. I thought to myself, God wouldn't be this way, or act in a certain manner, rather than just accept scritpure for what it teaches.

Good! Rom 1:18-32 because this is totally about judgment of mans choice from just what God's creation itself testifies!

I have known many a Godly man who sit down as children and say it is beyond me to resolve and in obedience say to all they come into contact with Choose you this day whom you will serve! Either God or the self formed by satan's work... for by your choice God will judge you....

Rv 3:14-22

'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' — and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked — 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."'"

NKJV

When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense...

Love, Steven

[Guest]

.... so you are saying once we receive the free gift that God doesn't expect anything of us.... After we are saved we live how we want....

Jesus Saves

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

And We Will Either Believe

What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me? I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD. Psalms 116:12-13

Or We Will Not

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Eternally

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

[oak]

As a (hopefully) last post on this topic I’d like to share it with you:

Without writing a memoir, as a child and adolescent I was very much influenced by maternal grandparents who escaped the Stalin regime, at that time the Soviet Union. Some of the stories they told me but most I heard after they died since it was just too hard to take. They lived in a world where priests where nailed to the altar, where fake NKVD (KGB) priests heard confessions and sent people to their deaths. Both of my grandparents at their jobs were approached to give up names of those who were not loyal to Stalin, and if they didn’t that meant they would go to the gulags. Scenes of a boy giving up his father to the authorities for being in some “plot” to kill a communist were common. And when the trial ended the beaten-up, father who didn’t confess, seeing his beaten up son gave him bread. The son sank to the father’s knees and cried out, “I told them lies about you,” and that didn’t change anything. Yes, there were people of faith that died for the faith with their arm being cut off, to prevent them from crossing themselves before being shot. And the madness continued….

Yes, I for one am glad that at least the believers in those times were not taught OSAS or Eternal Security - in the sense that Christ died for their sins (the truth) and they were free to live life as they please – for nothing they would do could add their to Salvation. Their faith was a process and acquisition of the Holy Spirit was struggled for and was not believed to be fully in you by simple declaration, but by the fruits produced. I doubt me telling my grandparents at any point of their lives that all they had to do was believe in Christ and that He died for their sins – a solid truth – and cease the struggle, would make them live happily because the OSAS and Eternal Security crowd have a new heart and mind.

What I told you about in the Soviet Union was the truth. Remember the Bible scripture: “What good is it my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can THAT FAITH (emphasis mine) save him?” Jms 2:14 James is not contradicting any other teaching, he simply is placing emphasis on the fact that not all faith can be regarded as being equal. I’m sure there will be disagreements but if you still hold to OSAS or Eternal Security, know that with your pronouncement of faith you have to become Christ like: Yes, if Christ is indeed in us, we can’t take credit for the work because it’s His but you still got to do it.

Oak

PS What gets me about the OSAS crowd is that there doesn’t seem to be a progression leading to the peak of Salvation. An authentic Christian comes around say’s the salvational words and they are eternally saved. Is there any work in becoming an authentic Christian?

[Guest]

.... Is there any work in becoming an authentic Christian....

Remain Faithful

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

And Even That Is God's Work

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

[Michae]

Eternal Security is true but it comes with conditions. We don't like conditions. We think it means you have to work for something and we realize that we cannot earn anything through our works. So instead we take away the "conditions" and try to make it so black and white that even we can't rebel, disobey, or walk away. However, sadly, that is simply not true. It is a gift in that we cannot earn it, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing required of us at all.

Ro 5:15-17

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

NKJV

Perhaps you struggle with the word free

Paradigm is not salvation and works but the salvation and sanctifcation... You see if Jesus is within us, by the free gift of just asking Him to come into us, then His presence will be seen by that which we do! If we do not do the things He did then we may doubt, as others, the reality of the asking! Love, Steven

The birthing unlocks the scriptures to see Christ as your only life. Predistination is being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, simply means those that believe will be placed in Christ. Freewill is never violated, who so ever believeth shall be saved. You are not alone in this search, many are searching for their salvation, they have the scriptures but cant put them together. No man can not with out the help of the Holy Spirit.

Depending on back ground, culture and religious up bringing will determine how you view the bible. Some will see God one way and some will see Him another way just depending on how you were raised at home as well as in a church setting.

The birthing is as simple as seeing Christ who is our life, that revelation will unlock to every believer the scriptures, not to prove a point but see Him in all the scriptures.

Revelation is Spirit taught knowledge, it is the Holy Spirit teaching us Christ, the Christ that is in every believer being taught to you as your only life. You see we feel like we have a life of our own but the truth is Christ is the only life you have. Most will spend a life time trying to get that fixed in them which is good but with out a revelation of the indwelling Christ it is impossible to see Him as your only life.

so you are saying once we receive the free gift that God doesn't expect anything of us? After we are saved we live how we want?

There are two extremes:

I have to work to keep it

I don't have to do anything to keep it

I am somewhere in the middle. I understand that I cannot earn it and "keeping it" is not by my works, yet I also understand that the commands of God are for me and therefore there are things that are expected of me.

The Bible does not have any contradictions, but one can correctly state that it appears to. It does come down to rightly dividing the Word of truth. I have been seeking answers to this question of OSAS verses doctrines whereby one can lose their salvation for years, and have listened to both sides. The missing link, for no better way to describe it, is predestination and election, as is found in Romans. Most don't want to believe that if you are saved, it is because God chose you, and you didn't choose him, but that is exactly what scripture says. If you can accept that as true, the rest falls into place. Those that God enlightened will accept Jesus as their savior, and live for him. Those that God did not choose will either reject Christ entirely, have a superficial head knowledge without a relationship, or fall away when persecutions arise. It is all according to God's sovereign will. He is the potter, and we are but clay. It was only my intellect that caused me to take so long to accept the truth. I had done the same thing most others have, put God into a box or my own pre-conceived ideas. I thought to myself, God wouldn't be this way, or act in a certain manner, rather than just accept scritpure for what it teaches.

[Botz]

PS What gets me about the OSAS crowd is that there doesn’t seem to be a progression leading to the peak of Salvation. An authentic Christian comes around say’s the salvational words and they are eternally saved. Is there any work in becoming an authentic Christian?

Hi bro,

I probably belong to what you affectionately term the OSAS crowd.

My motivation for being a disciple of the L-rd, and not sitting on my backside glorying in my eternal salvation and trying to justify doing whatever I want

is that I am utterly compelled to follow Jesus and seek to lead a righteous life and desire holiness because His Spirit now dwells in me...it doesn't boil down

to a set of theological beliefs, but is a daily consequence of being born-again.

Anyone who believes they are saved and does what they like is reading a different Gospel to the one I know.

Jesus said if we 'loved' Him, we would 'obey' Him......this is the fruit we should look for in one another.

Your friend. Botz

[He giveth more grace]

^{Isaiah 53:}

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. ¹¹ He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Let's keep it simple:

Christ bore our iniquities, check.

God was satisfied, check.

The Salvation of God is not dependant upon us, but in being satisfied with what Christ accomplished in being our pure sinless lamb that was offered for us.

If our salvation was a transaction between Christ and God can I now come into this transaction and make it void, rubish. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Look to the offering (Christ) not on us; look to the satifation of God, not on ourselves.

Hebrews 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The blood of Christ, ummm, I don't see any mention of us in this verse, ummm.

Ephesians 2

⁸For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

⁹Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is a gift, it's yours, through his faith. If Salvation is not of works then by works you cannot lose it. Concerning receiving or "losing" savaltion, works is out the window.

We truly are sealed forever with the Holy Spirit forever.