Sodomites

[Bold Believer]

My thought is that it is sin, no matter what people are referring to.

Excellent point Onelight. We must remember the real issue here. ANY sexual activity outside the one man and one woman marriage is SIN period. Obviously this includes homosexuality AND prostitution. However, while we are very quick to condemn these acts, it also includes Adultery and Fornication, which some believers get caught up in and we are a lot slower to condemn these. There is no reason to get hung up on what a certain word means on this issue. ANY SEX OUTSIDE THE MARRIAGE BED IS SIN PERIOD.

Was it a sin for Abraham to have a child with Hagar???

I would have to say yes, !st he was not married to her, 2nd Abraham did not trust God because he wanted a child now, so turning his back to God's timing., and tried to solve the problem on a human why. By Law she did what was legal in the world at the time, but, that is not what God wanted.

ICL Dennis

That is not why Abraham went in to Hagar. He didn't understand (whether from lack of faith or not) how God was going to give Sarah a child. He figured that he was going to be the father and so since Sarah was well beyond childbearing age (and for that matter, he was beyond childMAKING age), he figured that he was going to have to find a woman capable of bearing a child, and then give that child to Sarah. Its what we call surrogate motherhood today. For Abraham, it was intended as an act of faith. He understood that the child would have to be conceived within a certain time in order to fulfill what the Angel of the LORD told him. It was not a sin, but it was certainly an error.

[Bold Believer]

I understand in scripture that we won't find "gay", but i believe this is what God is talking about. I know that "sodomite" means prostitute. Could i have your comments, please?....

The word "gay" used to simply mean "happy." The homosexual community, for some reason, commandeered it and used it to describe their lifestyle which is, in most cases, anything but "gay."

In Deuteronomy 23:17, sodomite is used in reference to the "sons of Israel" referring to sex between two males. As Dave pointed out, with scripture, anywhere homosexuality is found in the Bible it is strongly condemned. It is never allowable under any circumstance.

Sodomite does not mean "prostitute." That is a recent convolution of the original word, done by people who wish to make homosexuality acceptable, according to the Bible. It isn't, and never will be.

Now that those people are getting want they want, can we have the words and other things that they stole back?

Gay was being Happy. Queer was being different, and a rainbow was a reminder of God's Promise not to Flood the Earth again.

I liked rainbows and used to have a sticker on my car of a rainbow, taking pictures of them was high on my list to, until some person educated me to the now-a-day meaning of the picture, by trying to hit on me: (sick, sick, sick,).......I want the old meaning back...

I hate to bring this up but: Who said nothing when the pervos started using the term? BELIEVERS. We just let 'em have at it. Now we're complaining. It was OUR FAULT societally. We went inside the walls of the Church and hid there because as J. Vernon McGee so succinctly put it: "Who polishes brass on a sinking ship?" It never occurred to us that we were the ones who ran her aground by abrogating our Dominion Mandate to subdue the world and reproduce in it. We have a certain eschatology to thank for that. I won't mention it, but we all know which one it is.

[mizzdy]

My thought is that it is sin, no matter what people are referring to.

Excellent point Onelight. We must remember the real issue here. ANY sexual activity outside the one man and one woman marriage is SIN period. Obviously this includes homosexuality AND prostitution. However, while we are very quick to condemn these acts, it also includes Adultery and Fornication, which some believers get caught up in and we are a lot slower to condemn these. There is no reason to get hung up on what a certain word means on this issue. ANY SEX OUTSIDE THE MARRIAGE BED IS SIN PERIOD.

Was it a sin for Abraham to have a child with Hagar???

Wrong might not have been the best choice of words... Since it was 27 years after the covenant was made its my leaning that God gave Abraham the sign of circumcision as a way of showing him that it would be in Gods timing and in Gods ways that the Messiah would come. Not through Abrahams meddling by bringing forth a son by another woman but only through the means He set forth. Its another example of man taking Gods words and doing with them what they want, one of listening to anothers voice and not Gods. God loved Ishmael and promised to make him a great nation also but he was not the son of promise given to Sarah and Abraham. This circumcision thing has gotten way out of hand, it is not the sign of the covenant as many think, and the one thing that those influencers in Galatia had decided was the only sign into 'corporate' Israel. Sad how things get so twisted by mans hands.

shalom,

Mizz

It was and wasn't, the idea that God promised a physical seed to Abraham but they decided to not wait on God and have one via someone else. God thought it was wrong and He brought in circumcision to show Abraham it was His timing and not anyone elses where and how the Messiah would be brought forth. Its a strange thing to read about how common men going to prostitutes and such things.

Is there scripture showing where God thought it was wrong?

[~candice~]

I understand in scripture that we won't find "gay", but i believe this is what God is talking about. I know that "sodomite" means prostitute. Could i have your comments, please?....

The word "gay" used to simply mean "happy." The homosexual community, for some reason, commandeered it and used it to describe their lifestyle which is, in most cases, anything but "gay."

In Deuteronomy 23:17, sodomite is used in reference to the "sons of Israel" referring to sex between two males. As Dave pointed out, with scripture, anywhere homosexuality is found in the Bible it is strongly condemned. It is never allowable under any circumstance.

Sodomite does not mean "prostitute." That is a recent convolution of the original word, done by people who wish to make homosexuality acceptable, according to the Bible. It isn't, and never will be.

Now that those people are getting want they want, can we have the words and other things that they stole back?

Gay was being Happy. Queer was being different, and a rainbow was a reminder of God's Promise not to Flood the Earth again.

I liked rainbows and used to have a sticker on my car of a rainbow, taking pictures of them was high on my list to, until some person educated me to the now-a-day meaning of the picture, by trying to hit on me: (sick, sick, sick,).......I want the old meaning back...

I hate to bring this up but: Who said nothing when the pervos started using the term? BELIEVERS. We just let 'em have at it. Now we're complaining. It was OUR FAULT societally. We went inside the walls of the Church and hid there because as J. Vernon McGee so succinctly put it: "Who polishes brass on a sinking ship?" It never occurred to us that we were the ones who ran her aground by abrogating our Dominion Mandate to subdue the world and reproduce in it. We have a certain eschatology to thank for that. I won't mention it, but we all know which one it is.

BB, I'm sorry, that is one of the weakest segways I've ever heard.

[Fez]

Just a question.....

Why do we as Christians fixate on this subject? Is it because it is unnatural and abhorrent behavior to us in a simply moral and worldly way?

My point is that sin is sin. There is no "grading" of sin in God's eyes.

There have been so many posts about this subject over the years, and I hesitate to say that adultery, abuse of women, theft, drunk driving, etc, have not been beaten to death as has this subject.

Is there a large population of people trying to force us to accept that abuse of women, theft, drunk driving etc are acceptable? No. Not like homosexuality is being shoved down our throats in the US. Im equally outspoken about adultery etc as I am about homosexuality. In chat tho, the ones who come in defending sin almost never defend the sins you list, yet we routinely get folks in chat who see nothing wrong with homosexuality. So its not the obsessiveness on the part of Christians who are focusing on this one sin. Its the mores of society trying to force an acceptance of this sin that lead to our response.

Point taken!

My (failed), attempt was to try and explain that we should not demonize this sin above that of others, but as you so rightly say, if it is being shoved down our throats we are only right to react.

Did I manage to convey my thoughts a bit more clearly?

[taylor30]

Excellent point Onelight. We must remember the real issue here. ANY sexual activity outside the one man and one woman marriage is SIN period. Obviously this includes homosexuality AND prostitution. However, while we are very quick to condemn these acts, it also includes Adultery and Fornication, which some believers get caught up in and we are a lot slower to condemn these. There is no reason to get hung up on what a certain word means on this issue. ANY SEX OUTSIDE THE MARRIAGE BED IS SIN PERIOD.

No, that is not the problem. You don't have people "caught up" in these sins trying to say that they are acceptable in Gods's eyes. You have a small group of people, mostly homosexual themselves, trying to tell other Christians that the behavior is ok. When was the last time you heard a Christian trying to justify adultery?

Sadly I actually have heard MANY Christians justify adultery, fornication, and homosexuality. Sadly the church has accepted MANY sins today. It is not a small group of people.

[brightmorningstar]

taylor30,

Nor at all, Cobalt1959 is right, the overwhelming majority of churches do not accept adultery or homosexuality, the idea that they do accpet adultery comes from those few churches, or those within the churches that want to see a blind eye turned to homosexuality.

[Bold Believer]

I understand in scripture that we won't find "gay", but i believe this is what God is talking about. I know that "sodomite" means prostitute. Could i have your comments, please?....

Sodomite means an inhabitant of Sodom.

The term has come to mean sexual deviate in terms of the acts committed. Homosexual (male or female), pedophile, bestiality.

[taylor30]

Sadly I actually have heard MANY Christians justify adultery, fornication, and homosexuality. Sadly the church has accepted MANY sins today. It is not a small group of people.

Certain churches. Certain churches with Liberal theology. By and large these churches that are pushing very hard to normalize homosexuality are not Protestant, Evangelical, and Conservative churches. You can't paint all churches with the same broad brush.

I must disagree. I don't see ANY preachers talking about this issue and when an instance appears in the church it seems great effort is taken to keep it quiet. I attend an evangelical church and I have never heard them talk about sexual sin. I think its more common than you would like to believe.

[brightmorningstar]

Sexual sin is more common than one would like to believe, but there is a difference between actively promoting and blessing a sin as good and struggling with it. With the latter one can repent.

The problem with homosexuality in the church is some are blessing it and claiming God does.

As soon as we can take our eyes off people and on to the truth, we can see same sex relations are detested by God as well as adultery and fornication, never mind whether the homosexual falls short. so does everyone else, if the homosexual acknowledges he has sinned he is surely in the 'same boat' as the rest of us, different type of sin but still sin. The problem is those promoting and defending it, and its pointless discussing it with them. If we who believe tried the same it would be total choas.

ie..

B where does it say love your neighbour

A Leviticus 19:18

B But that is OT, you eat shellfish dont you

A Matthew 5:43

B but thats just your interpretation of what it says, not everyone agrees.

A Mathew 19:19

B But that is a passage about divorce

A Luke 10:27

B But that doesn’t necessarily mean everyone, just everyone the people being addressed came into contact with.

A Romans 13:9

B But that is Paul not Jesus.