Calvinism and Corinthians 12:3

[nebula]

I'm using a different standard of measure.

Do consequences mean nothing to you?

Does a person's character mean nothing to you?

[nebula]

I want you take the Scriptures presented here,

and show why they do not say what they clearly state.

I am failing to understand how a teaching on freedom from the Law of Moses fits into the discussions we are having here.

[nebula]

Eleanor, you said you are a teacher. As I read what you posted in that thread, I have to wonder - did you put all that together for the Board, or is this something you've pre-written for whatever group or function or church or school you teach?

[Fez]

We gloss the Word of God only because we don't believe what it clearly states.

I do not teach unbelievers

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Ok....

[nebula]

Recorded here are a fraction of the historical mistreatment of Christians against Jews:

http://www.jewishvoice.org/site/DocServer/persecution.pdf?docID=181 (pdf file)

When you say that sins of Christians in the past is inconsequential because all their sins are covered by the blood, you are teaching against the principle of reaping what we sow simply by negating the consequences. Heaven or Hell are not the only consequences produced by sin.

By teaching that what one does or does not do doesn't matter, you are teaching tolerance to sin and the lack of the need for repentance.

When you say that all murders are the same, therefore "Calvin [or whomever] murdering Jews is no different than the Jews murdering Christ," you are teaching the same doctrine that makes you an enemy to the Jews in their eyes.

Where belief in Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah was considered an heretical sect of Judaism in the very beginning, belief in Jesus now is considered by the Jewish population as a threat (if not one of the greatest threats) to their existence as a people.

There is no comparison.

Nor is there any justification for what "the Church" has done in the name of Christ which goes against everything He taught and lived.

[nebula]

Hi, Fez,

"It was he who gave. . .some to be evangelisits. . ." (Eph 4:11; 1Co 12:27-29)

It wasn't my idea not to be an evangelist.

But you may teach those who are evangelists.

[nebula]

If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious as to why that is relevant.

Your writing was put together as if a lot of time was spent to put together - much more time than the average person has for message board communication, the kind that would take hours if not days to put together.

Most of us can't respond in kind because most of us don't have that kind of time to put those kinds of details together with such sophistication.

Sometimes it helps to assess where a person is coming from.

And let me say one more time, I would never have waded into those barracuda waters if murder hadn't been presented as the basis for discrediting theological thought. The only basis for discrediting theological thought is the Word of God. We must keep our principles uncorrupted.

Do you find in the Word of God, "Well done good and faithful servant for teaching the correct theological thought"? Or do you find, "Well done good and faithful servant, you were faithful..."?

As James noted, faith is demonstrated by actions. If one's actions are destructive, what does such say about that one's faith?

As it is stated: "Dead flies make a perfumer's oil stink, so a little foolishness is weightier than wisdom and honor." (Ecc. 10:1)

What "flies" were in Calvin's theological ointment that resulted in him putting to death those that opposed his teaching? Have you been able to separate the "flies" out?

[nebula]

I'm using a different standard of measure.

Do consequences mean nothing to you?

Does a person's character mean nothing to you?

I assume you are referring to Calvin's character and the consequences of his belief regarding Jews.

Well, that would also apply to the murder of Stephen and the apostles (Jn 8:49). . .many Christians under Nero. . .etc., etc., etc.

None of that means much to me, personally, 1,500 years after they're dead and gone.

Those that murdered Christians long ago did not do so "in the name of Christ."

Calvin as a Christian was "an ambassador for Christ" (2 Cor. 5:20). As such, he was representing Christ to the Jews. Was He giving them an accurate representation to them?

[nebula]

Hi, Fez,

"It was he who gave. . .some to be evangelisits. . ." (Eph 4:11; 1Co 12:27-29)

It wasn't my idea not to be an evangelist.

But you may teach those who are evangelists.

Your point?

You claim your words have no impact on the Jews, nor causes hindrances to those who evangelize to them.

But if you teach someone who happens to be an evangelist, one who has not been trained in relating to Jews, by your teaching they will repeat the same mistakes that have drove a wedge between Jews and their Messiah on account of how Christians portray Him.

[Guest yod]

That's pretty much what I said in the following that your response would be; viz, an excuse for not doing so.

my "excuse" has not changed since the first time I answered your false charge.

I completely trust 100% of what the Word says. Its your CONCLUSIONS about what it says that are wrong. And your clinging to greco-christian TRADITION is where you go wrong.

I want you take the Scriptures presented here,

and show why they do not say what they clearly state.

why would I ever do that? It would be impossible since I believe what the scriptures say 100%

it is your conclusions about what the scriptures say that are in such error.

We gloss the Word of God only because we don't believe what it clearly states.

We gloss the Word of God because we sit over it, rather than under it.

We gloss the Word of God because we feel we have a proprietary relationship to it, which allows us to sit over it rather than under it.

then stop it!?