Candidate barred for improper command of english

[Burning_Ember]

I think this thread has been very illuminating to candice, and it's been very illuminating to me as well, regarding what circumstances some people think freedoms regarding The Democratic Process in America apply or don't.

You are right, it has been a bit of an eye opener. But I note that this desire that people conform to American culture is a social pressure and not a legal one, unless I am mistaken?

Technically, yes. In practice, that depends. This thread is certainly more representative of more Conservative Americans, I'd bet American Social Liberals/Moderates would disagree with this.

I remember when I traveled to New York during the Ground Zero Mosque I spoke with someone in The Tea Party Movement about whether people could stop Muslims from Immigrating or not.

He replied saying that America had certainly done so before with the Immigration Act of 1924, to protect their culture. The act was passed, basically to limit Jewish and Italian Immigration while promoting others from being able to immigrate. It was repealed with key support from The Kennedy's, one of the many reasons they are held in high regard by some in America.

[ayin jade]

Arizona law states that govt business is conducted in english. If she cannot communicate then she cannot effectively serve. Arizona, unlike apparently the uk, has standards for political office.

[~candice~]

My (great) Aunt is an American, lives in Washington DC and is about as liberal as they come. I'm pretty sure she would fly off her handle to read what was written in this thread. But she does have a very short fuse . He daughter, who I call my Aunt, is in liberal media in the States.

What is interesting to see come out of this thread is that "conservative" in America and "conservative" in Australia do not mean the same things... certainly the prevailing conservative perspective here on Worthy (about multiculturalism) is not the prevailing perspective you would get talking to my church.

I remember avidly one of the first sermons I ever head ... the Pastor of my church at that time was talking about immigration into Australia, and his opinion, and that of many of the church leaders in Australia, is that God sends immigrants and refugees here to us to receive the gospel because we have been too lazy to "go out" in international missions.

There was no fear that their culture would grow to swamp ours.

Again, I'm trying to tread lightly... I simply do not believe in forced assimilation.

[nebula]

Hey Neb...

I'm really nervous about wading into these waters and being offensive. So I'm likely to pull out soon.

But the deal with Islam, is that it is a spiritual threat. Different languages gaining a foothold in a nation does not equate to a spiritual threat to me, it is not even a cultural threat, it is just the 'evolution' of a nation. I understand that many don't want America to evolve and they want it to remain what it was, and I obviously see that different because I am not one of you.

Well, I'm going to throw a bone out here.

How would it be accepted in Australia if immigrants deemed "Waltzing Matilda" sung at sporting events to be offensive, complained about it, and won the legal action to deem the song intolerant and forbidden from being sung at sporting events?

I know the example is extreme, but seriously, how would that be taken?

[nebula]

Again, I'm trying to tread lightly... I simply do not believe in forced assimilation.

What about reverse forced assimilation?

When immigrants - especially illegal ones - won't lift a finger to learn the language of the culture yet demand the natural born citizens of the nation learn their language in order to be communicated with? And then laugh at you as an idiot when you don't know their language?

You think I'm wrong for having a problem with this?

[~candice~]

Hey Neb...

I'm really nervous about wading into these waters and being offensive. So I'm likely to pull out soon.

But the deal with Islam, is that it is a spiritual threat. Different languages gaining a foothold in a nation does not equate to a spiritual threat to me, it is not even a cultural threat, it is just the 'evolution' of a nation. I understand that many don't want America to evolve and they want it to remain what it was, and I obviously see that different because I am not one of you.

Well, I'm going to throw a bone out here.

How would it be accepted in Australia if immigrants deemed "Waltzing Matilda" sung at sporting events to be offensive, complained about it, and won the legal action to deem the song intolerant and forbidden from being sung at sporting events?

I know the example is extreme, but seriously, how would that be taken?

Not well, lol, and I imagine it would spur the crowd on to break into spontaneous tune . Over and over and over again, probably getting louder the more beer was drunk.

Neb, I've already covered this with Dave. I'm not there and don't have the ability to correctly judge when one persons culture is asserting themselves to the point where they are denying others the right to practice their own culture.

I just think it goes both ways and neither should we deny others the right to practice their culture because we demand ours dominates.

Now in Oz, for the most part, everyone is doing their own thing and we don't care if someone else's culture is growing in numbers, but rarely would a subculture try to subvert another culture the way you describe.

Though I don't consider bilingual phone services to be subverting your culture, nor do I consider foreign fast food workers with poor English to be doing that either. And frankly if the majority want to vote in someone with poor English skills, then the majority have spoken and such is life.

Make sense?

[~candice~]

Again, I'm trying to tread lightly... I simply do not believe in forced assimilation.

What about reverse forced assimilation?

When immigrants - especially illegal ones - won't lift a finger to learn the language of the culture yet demand the natural born citizens of the nation learn their language in order to be communicated with? And then laugh at you as an idiot when you don't know their language?

You think I'm wrong for having a problem with this?

I tried to avoid all emotive language like "you are wrong" or "you have a problem".

Time for me to skip out to a less controversial and sensitive topic I think.

[nebula]

Now in Oz, for the most part, everyone is doing their own thing and we don't care if someone else's culture is growing in numbers, but rarely would a subculture try to subvert another culture the way you describe.

But that is the problem. I know my examples didn't seem to convey the concern.

I don't mind Hispanics being Hispanics. I don't mind them preserving their culture.

It's the subversion, disrespect, and domineering attitude coming from them that is rubbing us wrong. The fast food account was one of many examples. I could share of other examples.

[nebula]

I tried to avoid all emotive language like "you are wrong" or "you have a problem".

Time for me to skip out to a less controversial and sensitive topic I think.

Sorry, but I didn't know how else to word it.

Really, it's not the disagreement that is bothering me, but I don't perceive we are understanding each other.

[Matthitjah]

We're not understanding each other. We're talking past each other. That's okay though and why I tried to translate it into another example because to someone well versed in mutliculturalism it could seem almost foreign.

I've stated that my Great GrandFather came here from Italy and strove to be an American. That doesn't happen nowaday's. Folks come and strive to be Meican even to the detriment of America and that is wrong.

However, I will add that my Dad related to me one time and I agree, that most Hispanics are here to better themselves, and because they want to be free, and as much as they called His GrandFather a Wop and it was hurtful that we should strive to treat them with respect and Love.

I agree with that and I know some folks like that that I Love. I'm not talking about them.

I'm talking about the ones who are disrespectful to the Flag, the Culture, and our people and feel that they should get everything for free and not have to yield to the same cultural forces that the rest of us have had to.

It's not disrespectful to ask them to learn English. We also shouldn't keep them from being employed while they learn, but if there is no desire at all and only a hand out. They should be sent packing.

Here's the thing, go down south of the border and demand what they do here and see how far it gets you.

Meanwhile, if you dare to speak about such things your hateful.

You're one of those dastardly Conservatives, GASP! LOL