Did Jesus pay for ALL sin (past, present, and future sin)?

[allofgrace]

Mark 2:5-7 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” The scribes knew that scriptures stated that only God could forgive sins and that is why they were saying that Jesus was committing blasphemy. The passage in John 20:22-23 is teaching the same principle that is mentioned in Matt 18:18-20 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

The passage in John 20 is shortly after Jesus arose from the grave and appeared to these Apostles and He was telling them that when they proclaimed the gospel they had the authority to tell the people that whosoever believed on the Son of God could receive the forgiveness of their sins. The Holy Spirit gave them the power to perform miracles and wonders to be a witness that the Lord had authorized these men to preach the good news and that they could have forgive by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This was the beginning of the church age and after the book of Acts and the there are no more mentioning of some types of the events as in Acts. The principle is the same in Matt 18:18-20 when the church comes together to deal with an erring brother or sister in a dispute that when two or three are together and make the decision according to the word of God that it is bound in heaven and He agrees with their actions, and what they loose on earth He is in agreement with their actions. This is all dependent on following the leadership of the Holy Spirit and the word of God being in agreement with their actions. Every believer has the same authority when they follow the word of God and they tell a sinner what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10 or even as he told the jailer when asked what must I do, Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved and that implies their sins are forgiven them.

Good perspective. I think I agree.

Perhaps if you would clarify though do you agree with Selene's statement that the Apostles forgave sin and today people can forgive sin as well? Curious.

God bless,

GE

No, I do not agree with her statement at all about the Apostles being able to forgive sins. As I said in my post, I believe what Jesus was saying was that when they preached the gospel about Him being the Lamb of God that whosoever believed them would receive forgiveness of their sins from the Lord. Only God can forgive sins but whoever believes the gospel, any believer then can tell them that their sin debt is paid in full.

[gdemoss]

If one speaks by the Holy Spirit, then whose words are they? Only God can forgive sin. Can God speak through you?

How did Jesus forgive sin? He spoke by the Holy Spirit.

Mat 9:1 ¶ And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city. And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This [man] blasphemeth. And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? For whether is easier, to say, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?

What did Jesus compare here? Did he not show that saying "Arise, and walk" was the equivalent of forgiving sins?

Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Could Peter have said "In the name of Jesus Christ, thy sins be forgiven thee." ?

Incidentally Jesus told the paralytic that his sins were forgiven (aphiēmi) which is also remitted. And used the same word to tell his disciples to go and do likewise. John 20 shows Jesus giving the Holy Spirit via breathing upon them and then explains that whosoever sins that they forgive they are forgiven them. Same Greek word as was used when he healed the paralytic.

2Cr 13:3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.

That's a really interesting verse too. Hmm. I need to study this some more.

Praise God for all the discussion he provokes you guys to have! I learn so much as I go.

[GoldenEagle]

Selene I agree we are commanded to love one another and forgive one another. I agree with that. Forgive one another 7 x 70 type thing. That is not the issue.

What is actually being discussed from what I understand you are saying the the Apostles replace Jesus in absolution of sin. This is the argument for WHY in your view why Jesus didn't die for future sin. It's all related. If Jesus died of all sin then there is no absolution of sin by man and the priesthood in certain Christian denominations is in fact in error by practicing as such.

Your argument is that the Apostles could actually say "your sins are forgiven." There is no example of this in the Bible. This is something that in the past only Jesus Christ could/will do. This is something that today only Jesus Christ can/will do. This is something that in the future only Jesus can/will do. On top of that you're saying this still applies today where human beings can actually absolve or forgive another person of their sin. There is one intermediary between God and Mankind - Jesus Christ.

It may just be my impression but you seem a bit flustered here. Is there something wrong?

God bless you.

In Christ,

Jon/GE

[GoldenEagle]

No, I do not agree with her statement at all about the Apostles being able to forgive sins. As I said in my post, I believe what Jesus was saying was that when they preached the gospel about Him being the Lamb of God that whosoever believed them would receive forgiveness of their sins from the Lord. Only God can forgive sins but whoever believes the gospel, any believer then can tell them that their sin debt is paid in full.

This is very well put in bold brother.

Yet if I commit murder and I ask you to forgive me do you have capacity? I believe only God would have that capacity. I would argue that perhaps others wouldn't agree.

God bless you.

In Christ,

GE

[Mcgyver]

This thread has sure taken an interesting turn!

Just a couple of thoughts...If only God can forgive men for sins committed against Him, if Jesus Christ alone is our high priest and mediator, if it is only by faith in Jesus that we may be forgiven (for how could even an apostle forgive the sin of an unbeliever?); yet we are told to forgive one another...what sin is it within our authority to forgive?

I think that the answer is that we are to forgive trespasses/sin committed against us.

Peter asked the question: “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” and of course Jesus' answer was until 70 X 7.

In Colossians 3:12-13 we are told: Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

Matthew 6:14-15 says: “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

And many other passages teach us the same thing.

The difference is that in each one of these passages (and others) we are never told that we have the authority to forgive sin against God, but only the authority to forgive sins committed against us.

The Greek word for "forgive" carries with it the synonymous meaning: "To cancel the debt" incidentally.

[GoldenEagle]

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[GoldenEagle]

I have a question. Is there any remission/forgiveness of sin for a repentant unbeliever ?

Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It appears God will only forgive a persons sin once they repent AND believe.

It also appears we can forgive eachother.

Mat 6:14-15 KJV For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This makes John 20:23 very interesting indeed. Considering the context of this conversation with the disciples, which seems to parallel with Mark 16:14-15 concerning the great commission, it appears that the forgiveness Jesus spoke of to the disciples was contained the in the acceptance of the message of repentance and forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

Mar 16:14-15 KJV Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Interesting in bold. I like this perspective. Sorry this post got lost in all the excitement. Care to expound a little?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

This thread has sure taken an interesting turn!

Just a couple of thoughts...If only God can forgive men for sins committed against Him, if Jesus Christ alone is our high priest and mediator, if it is only by faith in Jesus that we may be forgiven (for how could even an apostle forgive the sin of an unbeliever?); yet we are told to forgive one another...what sin is it within our authority to forgive?

I think that the answer is that we are to forgive trespasses/sin committed against us.

Peter asked the question: “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” and of course Jesus' answer was until 70 X 7.

In Colossians 3:12-13 we are told: Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

Matthew 6:14-15 says: “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

And many other passages teach us the same thing.

The difference is that in each one of these passages (and others) we are never told that we have the authority to forgive sin against God, but only the authority to forgive sins committed against us.

The Greek word for "forgive" carries with it the synonymous meaning: "To cancel the debt" incidentally.

Excellent perspective brother. I think you have communicated what I was trying to say.

God bless,

GE

[Guest ninhao]

I have a question. Is there any remission/forgiveness of sin for a repentant unbeliever ?

Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It appears God will only forgive a persons sin once they repent AND believe.

It also appears we can forgive eachother.

Mat 6:14-15 KJV For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This makes John 20:23 very interesting indeed. Considering the context of this conversation with the disciples, which seems to parallel with Mark 16:14-15 concerning the great commission, it appears that the forgiveness Jesus spoke of to the disciples was contained the in the acceptance of the message of repentance and forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

Mar 16:14-15 KJV Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Interesting in bold. I like this perspective. Sorry this post got lost in all the excitement. Care to expound a little?

God bless,

GE

Jesus told the disciples to preach the Gospel. This Gospel contained the fundamentals of being made right with God through repentance, belief and hence the forgiveness of sins.

Mat 26:28 KJV For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Without the belief in God people will die in their sins.

Joh 8:24 KJV I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So it seems this is the crux of John 20:23. The disciples could indeed tell people they were forgiven, or not, contingent upon their acceptance of the Gospel message of repentance and belief.

The same as Allofgrace has said I think.

[Mcgyver]

Then I would ask the question: Could (i.e. was it possible) the Apostles have given absolution and forgiveness on behalf of God to an unrepentant sinner?