Did Jesus pay for ALL sin (past, present, and future sin)?

[Guest ninhao]

Hello Ninhao,

Jesus Christ is God, and the Father is also God. God is everywhere. He is not bound by space. God the Father is in you and in me at the same time. Christ is in you and in me at the same time. The Holy Spirit (who is also God) is in you and in me at the same time. There is nothing impossible that God cannot do.

God bless!

Selene

Ok Selene so the analogy of husband and wife doesn't fit your belief because they can be in separate places, and act independently, while still being one ? Are you saying the Father was in Jesus while He was on Earth as well as being in heaven and vice versa ?

The bible indicates the Father, Son and Holy spirit can be in different places and Jesus once said He didn't know something the Father did.

Mar_13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Your position is too confusing for me to accept but thanks for explaining.

[Guest ninhao]

Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Uhoh

[firestormx]

Selene,

Please tell me if I understand what your saying.

When the apostles healed the sick, or rasied the dead, or preformed any other miracle, it was not them doing it but Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit preforming the healing or miracle through the apostle. It was not there words or there power to heal, but Christ's. They were a continuation of His ministry. Jesus Continued his ministry through the 12 apostles. So when they spoke, it was Christ speaking through the Holy Spirit through the Apostles. So when you say, he gave them power to forgive sin, your really saying it is Jesus Christ forgiving the sin through the Holy Spirit through the apostles. For the scripture states the Holy Spirit will not speak his own, but will only speak that which he hears.

Is this what you are saying? Is this YOUR point?

[firestormx]

Selene,

Please tell me if I understand what your saying.

When the apostles healed the sick, or rasied the dead, or preformed any other miracle, it was not them doing it but Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit preforming the healing or miracle through the apostle. It was not there words or there power to heal, but Christ's. They were a continuation of His ministry. Jesus Continued his ministry through the 12 apostles. So when they spoke, it was Christ speaking through the Holy Spirit through the Apostles. So when you say, he gave them power to forgive sin, your really saying it is Jesus Christ forgiving the sin through the Holy Spirit through the apostles. For the scripture states the Holy Spirit will not speak his own, but will only speak that which he hears.

Is this what you are saying? Is this YOUR point?

Yes, firestormx......that is exactly what I have been saying and I even cited this scripture below to support what I say. I actually posted this scripture a few times, but for some reason some people ignored it.

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Ok, Selene

I know of 3 main line of thinking in the christian church today on the subject of the power of God in word or deed.

1st, all healing, miracles and raising of the dead stopped with the death of John. They are not for today.

2nd, That when a believer is called of God, they will reach a point in there walk where God will send his " annointing " on them, then They can heal, they can raise the dead, and they can preform miracles, and they can use whatever gifts they have been given. Because the " annointing " was given to them. It's there's and they are accountable for it. It's there ministry.

3rd, That from the apostles all the way down to today. When a healing, miracle, or raising of the dead is done, it's not the person, but Christ through the Holy Spirit doing it. It's a continuation of the ministry of Christ.

Now, numbers 1 and 2 I don't agree with, because I believe they are unscriptual. I believe number 3. Included with that is the verse you spoke about Mark 13:11. I myself know that Christ through the Holy Spirit can speak through a believer. That it can be God's word's and not our own. An example, A couple years ago, I was with a friend of mine who wasn't a believer, and had never seen the true power of God. On this day, I knew the Spirit of God was present with me very strongly. I had spent the day in prayer before this, but didn't know why. As we were talking, I suddenly started telling her, that she was abused as a child. It felt exactly like speaking in tongues, but I was speaking plain english. I went into some very graphic detail with her about it. It all finished and stopped after I told her that all this would come out into the open in a way the she would not be embaressed but would be told the truth in full. That she would know that Jesus Christ lives, and he loves her. She told me she had no memory of anything like this happening to her and laughed in my face. 6 months to a year later she called me and begged me to come right over. She had been to see her family that day. Her uncle had pulled her aside, and asked for her forgiveness for molesting her as a kid. He had come to salvation in Christ, and felt the need to seek forgiveness from her. The minute he started speaking, she said all the memories came back., as did my conversation with her. In the end every word that come out of my mouth was completely true. Shortly after this event she got saved. She said she never forgot how God spoke to her, and prepared her through me.

I say all that to say this to you selene, I do believe God can speak through a believer, he has done it through me. But why is there no record of this forgiveness of sin through a apostle or believer ever recorded? I understand your saying that it's still Christ forgiving he's just doing it through someone else, but why no record of it. Do you attruibute what happened with paul and the corithanians with there sexual sins to this? Or the book of revelation and the letter's to the churches, where it says, if they don't repent ( parphrasing) there candle would be removed? Can you give biblical backing for this?

Firestormx

Joseph

[firestormx]

Forgiveness of sins was still part of Christ's mission and ministry. And that goes back to the OP, which ask "Christ paid for all our sins - past, present, and future. I disagree with the OP. I believe that Christ forgave our past sins, and the present sins that we confessed to. But there is nothing in scripture saying that our future sins are ALREADY forgiven..

To say they are paid for is different from saying they are all forgiven. All sin was paid for by his death on the cross, but forgiveness comes only once we confess our sins with our mouth and believe in our heart. Then his sacrifice is attruibuted to us. It's like your holding the winning lottery ticket, but If you die without claiming the prize, then you forfiet the prize. Christ has already paid the price for all sin. Jesus doesn't have to pay the price for our sin again. He did it once and is now sit down at the right hand of the Father until his enemies be made his footstool. The responsibility to accept him and his sacrifice is now ours. Christ paying for all our sins past presant and future, is not the same thing as saying all sin for every person is forgiven past presant and future. If that was the case, then every person who ever lived would go to heaven.

Firestormx

Joseph

[OneLight]

There are many things not recorded in the Holy Bible. We know, for example, that after He ascended into Heaven, Christ raised the dead through the Apostle Peter in Acts 9:40, but there was no record of Christ giving that authority to Peter or any of the Apostles to do miracles. After His resurrection, Christ told His Apostles to baptize all nations, preach the Gospel to all nations, and to forgive sins or retain sins. There was no mention of any authority to perform miracles such as raising the dead given. John explains the reason for the absent in scripture best:

John 20:25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.

We do read of when Jesus spoke in Acts 1:4-8

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Through the power brought by the Holy Spirit does one accomplish such works, as you say.

[firestormx]

Forgiveness of sins was still part of Christ's mission and ministry. And that goes back to the OP, which ask "Christ paid for all our sins - past, present, and future. I disagree with the OP. I believe that Christ forgave our past sins, and the present sins that we confessed to. But there is nothing in scripture saying that our future sins are ALREADY forgiven..

To say they are paid for is different from saying they are all forgiven. All sin was paid for by his death on the cross, but forgiveness comes only once we confess our sins with our mouth and believe in our heart. Then his sacrifice is attruibuted to us. It's like your holding the winning lottery ticket, but If you die without claiming the prize, then you forfiet the prize. Christ has already paid the price for all sin. Jesus doesn't have to pay the price for our sin again. He did it once and is now sit down at the right hand of the Father until his enemies be made his footstool. The responsibility to accept him and his sacrifice is now ours. Christ paying for all our sins past presant and future, is not the same thing as saying all sin for every person is forgiven past presant and future. If that was the case, then every person who ever lived would go to heaven.

Firestormx

Joseph

Hello Brother Joseph,

The Bible says that He paid for past sins.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paying for our sins means to forgive our sins. That was what His sacrifice on the cross was about because He was the Lamb of God who took away sins. Christ did His part in taking away our sins. Now, we need to do our part in making sure that we confess and repent from our sins. As the Apostle Peter said AFTER Pentecost when the crowd asked what they should do.......Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." The Apostle Peter never said to do nothing because all sins were paid for.

If all sin is forgiven, then everyone goes to heaven.

[GoldenEagle]

Forgiveness of sins was still part of Christ's mission and ministry. And that goes back to the OP, which ask "Christ paid for all our sins - past, present, and future. I disagree with the OP. I believe that Christ forgave our past sins, and the present sins that we confessed to. But there is nothing in scripture saying that our future sins are ALREADY forgiven..

To say they are paid for is different from saying they are all forgiven. All sin was paid for by his death on the cross, but forgiveness comes only once we confess our sins with our mouth and believe in our heart. Then his sacrifice is attruibuted to us. It's like your holding the winning lottery ticket, but If you die without claiming the prize, then you forfiet the prize. Christ has already paid the price for all sin. Jesus doesn't have to pay the price for our sin again. He did it once and is now sit down at the right hand of the Father until his enemies be made his footstool. The responsibility to accept him and his sacrifice is now ours. Christ paying for all our sins past presant and future, is not the same thing as saying all sin for every person is forgiven past presant and future. If that was the case, then every person who ever lived would go to heaven.

Firestormx

Joseph

Hello Brother Joseph,

The Bible says that He paid for past sins.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paying for our sins means to forgive our sins. That was what His sacrifice on the cross was about because He was the Lamb of God who took away sins. Christ did His part in taking away our sins. Now, we need to do our part in making sure that we confess and repent from our sins. As the Apostle Peter said AFTER Pentecost when the crowd asked what they should do.......Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." The Apostle Peter never said to do nothing because all sins were paid for.

If all sin is forgiven, then everyone goes to heaven.

I agree, which is why I don't think all present and future sins were paid for.

All sin is atoned for at the Cross through Jesus Christ. (One time payment or sacrifice)

All sin is forgiven when there is repentence except for rejecting God's Holy Spirit in denying Jesus Christ. (In time whenever the request is made)

When people ask God to forgive their sins He does so because of the Holy Spirit living in them if they are Christ-followers. (In time whenever the request is made)

[firestormx]

If all sin is forgiven, then everyone goes to heaven.

I agree, which is why I don't think all present and future sins were paid for.

The bible dosen't teach that everyone goes to heaven, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

[Guest ninhao]

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has always been one and never separate. Distinct but definitely not separate. In the same way, Husbands and wives are distinct from each other in that the husband is the head of the house and the wife is not, but they are one. The Bible never says that the husband and wife is separate, but there is a distinction. A distinction is not a separation. I hope that helps in explaining it more.

Ok. Father Son and Holy spirit are all God yes. The comparison to husband and wife is still a little sketchy though. A husband and wife perform different and independent things while being in unison. They are in eachothers presence in essence but not always physically.

I suppose I get you, but I still can't apply that the Father died on the cross this seems specifically related to Jesus. This doesn't line up with what actually happened nor with any analogies I can find in the bible. For instance Abraham offering Isaac on the alter, but God instead providing the sacrifice etc.

We can say God the Son died, but we can't say the Father or the Holy Spirit died. If we die that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit , Jesus , or even the Father in us dies.