Worthy Christians - What Does It Mean

[AnotherSinner]

After much thought and well...reading up on some of the recent activity here at WCF..... I took myself somewhere I was honestly scared to go and look. Where would that be?

www.thethinkingatheist.com

Why?

To try to understand why they came here. Even more so, to get not only what they got out of WCF, but understand more their views of Christians. Tears fell upon reading. Yet, can I blame them? No...in all honesty I cannot. Here is some things I found that they felt were not being done...

1.Treat others as you would want to be treated; don't judge them and condemn them with imposed bigotry. Take ownership for your actions. (Quoted Kingschosen)

Apparently they feel that we are too quick to cast judgment. In a way, I cannot argue with this. For I have been guilty of it here when something is said that I do not like or agree with. It is something I battle with even now.

2. While they ride their high horses and pretend to be who they think they are I'll watch them ride off into the sunset from my perch in reality. (Quoted Lucradis)

A holier than thou persona seems to be felt as well. Humilty is something I agree...that perhaps we all should work a little harder towards. Myself included. For we are to humble ourselves before God and to love one another...be it friends, family, or even those who resent or hate us.

3. Modesty doesn't exactly coincide with forum name. (Quoted Lucradis)

We clearly have come across to some as boastful. Will admit....in chat....there was an instance that I realized that the forums are not read much. Was a bit disappointed. Then I may have misunderstood. For I had inquired as to if anyone had bothered to look into the views of those who recently came here...and found not many have. That too..was disappointing.

4. Really? REALLY? That's basically all you guys do. Judge, judge, judge. Have you even considered that maybe, just maybe your actions are being judged because they're wrong? I seriously can't get over this self-righteousness. It's appalling. (Quoted Kingschosen)

This is something again that is being mentioned. What is sad is yes, it is being done and not just to them, but we are also quick to pass judgement on one another.

5. But they segregate the population. (Quoted Ludacris)

I felt this too coming here...and I have been here maybe two weeks now. When you look for friendship do you ask first: What religion do you practice? If we are to witness to others and build up one another's faith in God, how can we do this if we are already divided?

I would apologize for offense here, but I just ....I just cannot because we need to see this. We need to see how we are viewed as Christians through the eyes of some of the VERY SAME PEOPLE we are supposed to be ministering to.

My intentions are not to condemn anyone here, but rather to enlighten. For I too am guilty of most, if not all these things. Just instead of saying how they wronged us...maybe we should be asking...how can we better minister and show God's love to them? How could we have been better examples of Christ's love?

I post this ready to take full responsibility for the reaction it may cause.... but God laid it on my heart to talk about this....it is something that does need to be addressed and it is something I feel has been avoided since it first came to be.

May God Bless You

Dani

[OneLight]

We divide this ministry so His work can be done without being interrupted by statements that will sidetrack the very ones we are trying to help. When we are answering serious questions, like some you have been asking, and all of a sudden someone states there is no God, or Jesus is a lie, or the bible is a fairytale, it is Satan who is trying to interfere. I am sadden that you feel we are ignoring those who we should be helping when we have dedicated a place where they can speak freely, but with respect.

Yes, we could be handling the lost better, but it is difficult when an ear is trying to do the job of an eye, or a nose that of a foot. Not all are called to debate atheist, but many feel it is their "duty". We read in 1 Corinthians 12:12 "For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ." and again in verses 18 & 19 "But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. And if they were all one member, where would the body be?". We each have our gift and should seek to understand what it is and how to do His will within His calling and election.

Their thread was not created to help us see our mistakes, though we can see what these few think of us. As I stated, my attempt to get others to search their heart may seem to of failed, but some have ensured me that they did get the message. yet, I now fear that I have opened the gates to those who are easily moved by half truths. I have much concern to how much of their twisted truth you are swallowing. Not everyone is what they say we are. Some are guilty of this, others of that, but they look at us all in the same light, if you really understand what they are saying.

Learn to check you heart to see if it is following the leading of the Holy Spirit and do not believe all that His enemies say about you or anyone else. Remember, "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." We are to wear the full armor of God, but first we must be mature enough to fit into it. This takes time to be fit enough for this type of battle. We must first grow in Him so the armor can fit properly and be effective. In other words, how much peace do we walk in; how strong is our shield of faith; does our helmet of salvation fit firmly on our head; do we have a sharp enough sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; and lastly, are we prayed up? These are questions we all need to ask ourselves. We become statistics when we enter the battlefield unprepared.

I hope you take my words in the love it is intended.

God Bless,

Alan

[Guest]

Lions

My soul is among lions: and I lie even among them that are set on fire, even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword. Psalms 57:4

And The Lion Of Judah

And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. Revelation 5:5

Oh LORD You Are With Me, What Have I To Fear

When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. Isaiah 43:2

Amen~!

~

.... Really? REALLY? That's basically all you guys do. Judge, judge, judge. Have you even considered that maybe, just maybe your actions are being judged because they're wrong? I seriously can't get over this self-righteousness. It's appalling. (Quoted Kingschosen)....

So

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

Obey

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Matthew 10:27

And Weep

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. James 4:8-10

Weep For The Lost

Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. John 16:20

And For The So So Proud

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. James 5:1

Cry Out For The Eternally Damned

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:24

May God Have Mercy

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. Lamentations 3:22-23

And We Love Him So

~

Stand Fast

Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. 1 Corinthians 16:13

And Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[winsomebulldog]

I understand both the point the A.S. is trying to make, and the motivation behind O.L.'s thread with originally brought this situation to our attention. Yes, we all absolutely need to take a long, hard look at ourselves and ensure that we are not behaving in a judgmental, self-righteous attitude. No doubt we've all been there at one time or another, on both sides of that coin. Try as we all might, none of us is perfect and sometimes our human natures get the better of us and we fail to behave as we know we ought or in a way that mirrors the way we'd like to be treated ourselves.

That being said, I simply don't think most of what they're saying about us over at TTA is accurate. They claim that we judged them before they even got there, yet a number of them came in "incognito" so I'm not sure how that could apply. I suppose they're basing that upon the way the site is "segregated" between believers and nonbelievers. But that segregation has a perfectly reasonable motivation and in no way "hides" portions of the site from them, since they can read anything they like and if it bothers them enough, there's no reason that they couldn't begin a thread about it in the Outer Court. The suggestion that limiting their ability to comment on every single thread in every forum is either some form of censorship or discrimination against them is preposterous.

First, the TOS make it very clear that this site was created to be a place for Christians to gather and share. Christians are no different than anyone else. In fact, the Bible makes a blatant comparison between the birth, growth, and walk of a Christian to the physical birth, growth, and walk of a person. Those who are "newborn" Christians, or still "young" in their Christian walk, don't have the same level of spiritual maturity as those who've been saved for many years. And sometimes, even the length of time that one has been saved is no measure of their spiritual maturity. The point being, all of us are not in a place where we can necessarily go head to head with a nonbeliever and not come away with some kind of damage. I place it in these terms. Would you take your child, say aged six, who plays Pee-Wee Football and place him into a high-school football game? Or how about college or the NFL? Of course not, because he would be no match for them. Or, would you take the average child and place them into a quantum physics class, then mock them when they were unable to understand? The simple truth is that this site limits the ability of nonbelievers to post as a way of protecting those who either do not wish to engage in those sorts of battles, or who are too immature to do so. It isn't some kind of judgment against them, or an effort to be "unwelcoming" to them, it is simply a way to protect those who need protecting. The fact remains that anyone who wishes to do so, can engage with them in the Outer Court at any time. So all their complaints about how we've "segregated the population" are based upon either misunderstanding or deliberate offense taken when none was ever intended.

The supposed "judgment" and "bigotry" they accuse of us is a two-way street. You need to understand that the entire situation was sparked by one person who came here, joined the site, then was banned because he started pushing a religion of his own invention. Literally, he created his own religion, gave it a name, and began seeking converts. He is one of their active members and has been for a long while. When he was eventually banned, he posted a "review" of this site and that is what led others to come here to supposedly "see for themselves." I still feel that Hughsie came here in good faith, with the same kind of open curiosity and consideration that our other resident atheists possess. The fact that we have atheists that are not only active members of the site, but have been for a long while is proof that most of what this group over at TTA is saying about us is untrue. We are not judgmental (as a whole). We simply have established rules of conduct that they do not like.

Anyway, while I feel that Hughsie and perhaps others who were caught up in the sweeping ban that was enacted were perhaps victims of circumstance, having been honest in both their initial admissions that they were nonbelievers and respectful in all their dealings with us, the rest of them cannot be given such consideration. They came here with the sole intent of causing mischief. They are still plotting ways to continue to do so. I find this quote particularly interesting, "Have you even considered that maybe, just maybe your actions are being judged because they're wrong?" They want us to confess all our "sins" to them, yet most of them are completely unwilling to point that same finger at themselves. They don't feel that they were "wrong" to target us, to lie to us, to mock us, to judge us before they ever even got here.

Stereotypes may be wrong, in that they paint everyone of any given group with the same broad brush, but they often have foundations in some truth. I assume most of them hate us because they've had poor experiences with people claiming to be Christians in the past. And I've certainly witnessed my fair share of the self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitudes they're saying we're all guilty of. Yet, their deliberate mocking of us does nothing to combat the stereotypical image of an atheist as someone who has no respect for those who dare to disagree with them. As my pastor likes to say, "remember, when you're pointing a finger at someone else, you've got three pointing back at you." They have condemned us for the exact same behaviors they are guilty of themselves.

None of us is without fault. But I refuse to be labeled something I am not. I'm not a bigot. I don't hate or abuse anyone just because they don't agree with me. I have friends that I love dearly who are not believers. I have acquaintances who are gay, though I'm not close to them and wouldn't pretend to be so. I don't know them well enough to call them anything but acquaintances. I know that every single time I've met or been around them, I've treated them with nothing short of the utmost respect. (I've known Christians who wouldn't.) I don't beat anyone over the head with my Bible, or shout insults at them just because they dare to disagree with me. I don't call those who disagree names, don't go off and mock them to others, cursing them and calling them stupid or worse. I've made mistakes. I've let my emotions get the better of me a few times, and regretted it later, finding myself in the position of issuing an apology for doing so. But, I am not any of the things they're calling me (and all the rest of us) over at TTA.

So, while I agree that we all need to be aware of our failings and seek God's guidance as we continue to grow and mature in Him, I also reject most of the accusations they're making. Just because they perceive us to be one thing, does not mean it's true. And that's the difference between me and them. I don't toss them all into a single box, tape it shut, and label it something unflattering just because some of them are abusive or at the least, rude. They want us to "take ownership of our own actions?" How about they do the same?

Please understand that I'm not offended by your words or your opinion. Again, I'm a firm believer that I don't have to agree with someone just to be kind and loving towards them. I think God uses every experience to teach us, and the lessons we learn from those experiences are different for each of us. Even two people who go through the exact same experience will come away with different understanding and lessons learned. I suppose my response here sounds like arrogance, or pride. It isn't. I simply want to make sure that all of us (the group over at TTA, included) look at ourselves and our actions honestly.

I think you have a very soft heart and a sympathetic spirit and that's a wonderful thing. God bless you, Dani.

[Guest]

.... I would apologize for offense here, but I just ....I just cannot because we need to see this. We need to see how we are viewed as Christians through the eyes of some of the VERY SAME PEOPLE we are supposed to be ministering to....

No Apology Needed Beloved

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! Psalms 133:1

For Indeed We Minister To The Hurting And To The Seeking And To The Brethren

Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:16-18

And We Preach To The Unlovable And To The Mocker

The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath. Proverbs 15:24

And We Love Them

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:44-45

Because He First Loved Us

We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:19-21

~

The Kicker Of The Snicker

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Exodus 20:7

TOS

You may not post any material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible. This includes user names or anything in your profile, or sig. (Ex. 20:7)

http://www.worthychr...tion=boardrules

~

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Zemke]

Internet communication seems to lend itself to hostile bickering and honestly after checking a board now and then over the years this worthy board seems to have a bit more control or handle on being open and less cutting. It's awful out there and other boards including theirs is just as guilty of the same things. They're using hostility toward other beliefs as a tool for unity. Using their religion as a justification to belittle and lift themselves up. It's human, they are guilty we are guilty. We are all murderers, hypocrites, thieves etc. the difference being we have been brought to repentance, believing on the true and living God. And yes there is always room for improvement.

We have much need for spiritual growth. How many true elders do you know or can admit you have ever met? Most of us would have to travel to a third world nation to find a true elder. Eldership is not only based on physical age but spiritual maturity.

Honestly I came here to practice. I've always been horrid at writing the way I think. Mostly I've wanted to be able to explain what I'm thinking in a way that others can grasp. Conversation has never been a problem for me but writing is something I have been able to avoid and get away with, so I have thought. I've improved a little and with other concerns growing this may be close to the end of my being around but I do like checking things out.

This doesn't mean I haven't prayed for situations or been moved by what others have posted. I've learned a number of things.

I really do believe this is actually one of the more decent boards out there. And maybe why they have found a home here for a while. We can learn from their attacks but we can learn much more by dedicating our minds to the one who saved us from the hostility and the future burning pit.

Edited March 29, 2012 by ZEMKE

[Guest]

.... 3. Modesty doesn't exactly coincide with forum name. (Quoted Lucradis)....

Worthy

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

Is The LORD Our God

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

And Think Not That Because Most Stand Highly Offended

Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. Luke 7:22-23

His Children Shall Now Somehow Become Ashamed Of Jesus The Creator The Savior And Their Love

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Galatians 6:14

Amen~!

Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1

Love, Joe

[winsomebulldog]

Internet communication seems to lend itself to hostile bickering and honestly after checking a board now and then over the years this worthy board seems to have a bit more control or handle on being open and less cutting. It's awful out there and other boards including theirs is just as guilty of the same things. They're using hostility toward other beliefs as a tool for unity. Using their religion as a justification to belittle and lift themselves up. It's human, they are guilty we are guilty. We are all murderers, hypocrites, thieves etc. and yes there is always room for improvement.

We have much need for spiritual growth. How many true elders do you know or can admit you have ever met? Most of us would have to travel to a third world nation to find a true elder. Eldership is not only based on physical age but spiritual maturity.

Honestly I came here to practice. I've always been horrid at writing the way I think. Mostly I've wanted to be able to explain what I'm thinking in a way that others can grasp it. Conversation has never been a problem for me to communicate but writing is something I have been able to avoid and get away with, so I have thought. I've improved a little and with other concerns growing this may be close to the end of my being around but I do like checking things out.

I really do believe this is actually one of the more decent boards out there. And maybe why they have found a home here for a while. We can learn from their attacks but we can learn much more by dedicating our minds to the one who saved us from the hostility and the future burning pit.

I agree. It's difficult to fully convey both the whole of our intended meaning and the emotions behind it when typing, especially "on the fly" as is often the case on internet boards. Like you, I've visited other boards out there, but pretty much gave all of them up because it's difficult enough to get my point across without having someone who misunderstood (intentionally or not) literally attack me in response. It's too stressful and ugly. So I have been profoundly grateful for Worthy. We can share, debate, and discuss here without fear of the vulgar, verbally violent attacks that are so rampant elsewhere. I suppose this is why I find the TTA response to us both baffling and unfair. We are Christians. This is a Christian site. It only stands to reason that it would be moderated to filter out or restrict behavior that is rude, offensive, or in direct opposition to the basic TOS of the site. I've had posts deleted before and while I don't like it, I certainly understand it. It's never happened randomly or even because a mod just didn't like what I said. It's always been because I was playing a role in leading a tread off-topic, or perhaps because I'd let my emotions get the better of me and was not thinking enough about what I was posting before posting it. I don't take any of that as some sort of personal attack or unwarranted censorship. It's just the mods making sure that things stay on track and helping me take a step back and think a little when I've started taking a debate personally. I'm very thankful that Worthy is here, that I can come here and know that even when disagreeing with others, I don't have to worry about being attacked or belittled.

Like you, I've often found myself struggling to get exactly the point I'm trying to make across on screen. It's much easier in person, because we have facial expressions and vocal inflections to help convey information. Sadly, I think we are forced to devote a significant amount of time trying to fully express ourselves when typing, and then even more time trying to clear up misunderstandings. Even more sad, those misunderstandings can lead to hurt feelings or bruised emotions, and that in turn just leads to more misunderstanding. I've gotten caught in that circle more than once, both as the misunderstood and the one misunderstanding. It's just the nature of the internet, though, and I am content that in most every instance where I've seen it happen, those involved (including myself) were able to eventually take a step back and be a little more objective, leading to apologies if necessary, or at least a pleasant agreement to disagree and let it go. And that is what makes this site so wonderful. We make plenty of mistakes, but in the end, we all still love each other and support each other and learn from each other. We are, for all intents and purposes, an online family.

- Which, come to think of it, might explain why I got so emotional about the things they're saying about us over at TTA. I've always been one to feel defensive when I feel my "family" is being unfairly judged or mistreated in some way. I'm the one who jumps in to play champion for those I feel are being ganged up on or otherwise treated poorly. I've done it for as long as I can remember. It's just my nature.

Huh, hadn't thought of that until just now. So, I DID learn something about myself from the situation with TTA!

[Guest]

.... 2. While they ride their high horses and pretend to be who they think they are I'll watch them ride off into the sunset from my perch in reality. (Quoted Lucradis) ....

Reality

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

Is A Blessing To The Few

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

But Will Become A Never Ending Horror To The Many

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

Which One Do You Choose To Ride

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:17-18

Love, Joe

[SavedByGrace1980]

Let's not beat ourselves up too badly. By all means, it is right and proper to always check ourselves and our attitudes - making sure we honorably reflect The One we serve in ALL our interactions - with believers and non-believers alike. Beyond that, we cannot know since we are not omniscient what is TRULY in someone's heart when they come here - whether they come here to seek or to destroy.

This scripture (one of my favorites) came to mind:

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18

Let us not lose sight of the fact that WCF is drawing non-believers and even atheists here. We must be doing SOMETHING right!

I'll end this comment with this scripture - one that reminds us that we are the workers, but HE is the Lord (of the harvest):

Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field."

Matthew 9:38

Blessings!

-Ed