SavedByGrace1981 Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,924 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I watched the interview - I believe the Imam was saying what he believed he had to say in order to advance his cause. He was very quick to apologize for the "60 Minutes" interview he did after 9/11 - almost too quick, in my opinion. His aim - I believe - was to catch Hannity off guard. That he did. He also ended up apologizing for more recent comments he made in Austrailia. Again, very convenient. I'm a Christian but I'm also an American. I completely believe in our First Amendment - I wish every adherent of any religion the opportunity to worship in peace as long as peace is what they seek. The problem with Islam is that it is a political movement as much as a religion. And like other political movements of the past, some of its "soldiers" are willing to kill others or even themselves to advance their cause and achieve rewards in Paradise. And Islam - as a political movement - is incompatible with the US or its Constitution (see Saudi Arabia). No one in their right mind wants war - but war may end up being the only solution other than "Islam" which - translated - means "submit". Blessings! -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 What I personally did not like, not agree with, is his comparison of the Sharia Law to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". There is so much different between them and us that this was just ridiculous to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I suggest you not get your facts from Wikipedia. Major Universities don't even recognize it as source material. Meanwhile, you should check it for yourself and make sure you check the surrounding references from the Koran in context. It is speaking about when Muslims are in a State of War. Since they are to War with the infidel and the Jew until there is none left or they are otherwise converted this would leave the verse to hold true in this instance. Islam is in a constant State of War with the West and in particular the U.S. of America (The Great satan)and Israel. It's funny because when I posted the wikipedia link I thought to myself "is someone going to nit pick wikipedia?". But I posted it anyways, figuring the 28 referenced sources for that page would probably provide a better definition than me googling taqiyya and getting a website like http://www.islam-watch.org which has a picture of the twin towers in its header. Maybe not a university paper but I think it will do in a pinch Saying all of Islam is in a constant state of war is exactly what Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf was saying moderate Muslims are not, and that moderate Muslims share the same goal of other Americans in stemming the radical extremists in Islam. If you are convinced that he's just lying and refuse to accept his words at face value there's nothing left to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2012 when I get my head back on strait from this infection I picked up, I'll try and post some of the information we received when we went to a continuing education conference for our local police officers. Still running feaver and I can't remember where the files are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 It is speaking about when Muslims are in a State of War. Since they are to War with the infidel and the Jew until there is none left or they are otherwise converted this would leave the verse to hold true in this instance. Islam is in a constant State of War with the West and in particular the U.S. of America (The Great satan) and Israel..... .... there's nothing left to say..... Amen~! The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. Joel 3:16-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2012 I suggest you not get your facts from Wikipedia. Major Universities don't even recognize it as source material. Meanwhile, you should check it for yourself and make sure you check the surrounding references from the Koran in context. It is speaking about when Muslims are in a State of War. Since they are to War with the infidel and the Jew until there is none left or they are otherwise converted this would leave the verse to hold true in this instance. Islam is in a constant State of War with the West and in particular the U.S. of America (The Great satan)and Israel. It's funny because when I posted the wikipedia link I thought to myself "is someone going to nit pick wikipedia?". But I posted it anyways, figuring the 28 referenced sources for that page would probably provide a better definition than me googling taqiyya and getting a website like http://www.islam-watch.org which has a picture of the twin towers in its header. Maybe not a university paper but I think it will do in a pinch Saying all of Islam is in a constant state of war is exactly what Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf was saying moderate Muslims are not, and that moderate Muslims share the same goal of other Americans in stemming the radical extremists in Islam. If you are convinced that he's just lying and refuse to accept his words at face value there's nothing left to say. ...... So then you're not going to bother to look at the verses in context? You are right though. There is nothing left to say to someone who refuses to educate themselves. Stay asleep if you desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted May 25, 2012 ...... So then you're not going to bother to look at the verses in context? I already looked at them, I just didn't see anything that would make me think that this tv interview was somehow a legitimate area for Taqiyya. Look, I'm not a Muslim, and I don't intend to become one anytime soon. I don't know everything about Islam nor do I feel the need to defend all of their teachings. We are in agreement that they have a lot of things wrong. However pulling single verses/sets of verses from the Qur'an and making a sweeping claim on them is just as dangerous as pulling single verses from the Bible - especially if you have an preconceived agenda. What is sad to me is an olive leaf was clearly given during this interview (a coming together of religious moderates to combat extremists) and you are too busy being untrustworthy of all Muslims when it's such a small % of them that actually commit acts of terrorism. You are right though. There is nothing left to say to someone who refuses to educate themselves. Stay asleep if you desire. And wrapping the 99% into the same group as the 1% who are violent extremists is your definition of staying awake? If that's the case I'll take some NyQuil! However I was of course referring to the fact that you won't trust this Muslim on account of his being Muslim. If you have no trust you provide no opportunity to communicate, since there is nothing they can say that you won't assume is a lie. And frankly if anything is going to lead us to war with the Muslim world it's that mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,400 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,575 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 25, 2012 How do we say 'a wolf in sheep's clothing'... lets just all live together in peace! It is their drool that gives them away ... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2012 "Reliance of the Travller" is the English translation of Clasic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. It is approved by imams in Jordan Seria Egypt Saudi Arabia and is approved to teach to those countries that only speak english. This much is related by both Bukhari and Muslim, with Muslim's version recording that Dmm Kulthum added, "I did not hear him permit untruth in anything people say, except for three things: war, settling disagreements, and a man talking with his wife or she with him (A: in smoothing over differences). "This is an explicit statement that lying is sometimes permissible for a given interest, scholars having established criteria defining what types of it are lawful. The best analysis of it I have seen is by Imam Abu Hamid Ghazali, who says: "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N: i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. When, for example, one is concealing a Muslim from an oppressor who asks where he is, it is obligatory to lie about his being hidden. Or when a person deposits an article with one for safekeeping and an oppressor wanting to appropriate it inquires about it, it is obligatory to lie about having concealed it, for if one informs him about the article and he then siezes it, one is financially liable (A: to the owner) to cover the article's cost. Whether the purpose is war, settling a disagreement, or gaining the sympathy of a victim legally entitled to retaliate against one so that he will forbear to do so; it is not unlawful to lie when any of these aims can only be attained through lying. But it is religiously more precautionary (def: c6.5) in all such cases to employ words that give a misleading impression, meaning to intend by one's words something that is literally true, in respect to which one is not lying (def: r1O.2), while the outward purport of the words deceives the hearer, though even if one does not have such an intention and merely lies without intending anything else, it is not unlawful in the above circumstances. "This is true of every expression connected with a legitimating desired end, whether one's own or another's. An example of a legitimating end of one's own is when an oppressor intending to appropriate one's property inquires about it , in which case one may deny it. Or if a ruler asks one about a wicked act one has committed that is solely between oneself and Allah Most High (N: i.e. it does not concern the rights of another), in which case one is entitled to disclaim it, such as by saying, 'I did not commit fornication,' or '} did not drink.' There are many well known hadiths in which those who admitted they deserved punishment were given prompting (A: by the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace» to retract their confessions. An example of a legitimating desired end of another is when one is asked about another's secret and one disacknowledges it. And so on. One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie, though if the reverse is true or if one does not know which entails more damage, then lying is unlawful. Whenever lying is permissible, if the factor which permits it is a desired end of one's own, it is recommended not to lie, but when the factor that permits it is the desired end of another, it is not lawful to infringe upon his rights. Strictness (A:, as opposed to the above dispensations (rukhsa, def: c6.2» is to forgo lying in every case where it is not legally obligatory. " r8.3 The position of Ahl al-Sunna is that lying means to inform another that something is otherwise than it really is, whether intentionally or out of ignorance. One is not culpable if ignorant of it, but only if one lies intentionally, the evidence for which is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) made intentionality a condition when he said, "Whoever lies about me intentionally shall take a place for himself in hell." War - settling disagreements - and you can lie to your wife. The Muslim Brotherhood has a multi-step program going on as we read and write to overthrow the constitution and subject the USA to Sharia Law..... so it is permissible for them to lie out ther backsides to help further thier jihad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted May 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2012 ...... So then you're not going to bother to look at the verses in context? I already looked at them, I just didn't see anything that would make me think that this tv interview was somehow a legitimate area for Taqiyya. Look, I'm not a Muslim, and I don't intend to become one anytime soon. I don't know everything about Islam nor do I feel the need to defend all of their teachings. We are in agreement that they have a lot of things wrong. However pulling single verses/sets of verses from the Qur'an and making a sweeping claim on them is just as dangerous as pulling single verses from the Bible - especially if you have an preconceived agenda. What is sad to me is an olive leaf was clearly given during this interview (a coming together of religious moderates to combat extremists) and you are too busy being untrustworthy of all Muslims when it's such a small % of them that actually commit acts of terrorism. You are right though. There is nothing left to say to someone who refuses to educate themselves. Stay asleep if you desire. And wrapping the 99% into the same group as the 1% who are violent extremists is your definition of staying awake? If that's the case I'll take some NyQuil! However I was of course referring to the fact that you won't trust this Muslim on account of his being Muslim. If you have no trust you provide no opportunity to communicate, since there is nothing they can say that you won't assume is a lie. And frankly if anything is going to lead us to war with the Muslim world it's that mentality. In the immortal words of Toby Keith, "Red Solo Cup I fill you up, It's time to Party!" Bottoms up on that Nyquil my dear friend Burgers but remember; 1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life will suffice us to have done the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in licentiousness, lusts, excess of wine, reveling, carousing, and abominable idolatries: 1Pe 4:4 ¶ In which they think it strange that you run not with them to the same excess of dissipation, speaking evil of you: 1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the living and the dead. 1Pe 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1Pe 4:7 ¶ But the end of all things is at hand: be therefore sober minded, and watch unto prayer. Be sober, be vigilant; 1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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