Christian Zionism

[xero]

Galatians 3:23"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"

I wouldnt bother with nationalism of any sort. Study the NT in depth to the point its seared into your cornea then all you will see is Gods Word. Read it like braille and youll get a feeling of whats at hand. All you need is faith really but that dept. is lacking in all of us, otherwise we would be raising the dead, healing the sick, casting out demons, moonwalking on water. jk

Anyway were in this world but not of it so observe and youll see how fruitless it is to participate though watching is a whole different story. Zionism is a nasty piece of work thats dragging the whole world into conflict and its by design, satans design not the zionists themselves, Im sure there are plenty of nice zionists with good intentions just like mormons catholics, buddhists, wiccans, politicians, liars…I mean lawyers, etc. ad naseum but the doctrines are venom. I pray you all understand because things are getting real close to a head. They have five toes and once they have five more its crunch time. Dont forget to laugh its truly good medicine keeps the spirit upbeat breaks up depressing thoughts and keeps the mind fresh. Were fresh wise guys. lol

[nebula]

Interplanner, from what I understand, Jewish theologians have shied away from the prophecies of "Messiah Ben Joseph". Most Jews have not even been taught Isaiah 53. Thus they make claims such as you heard.

[Guest yod]

. Zionism is a nasty piece of work thats dragging the whole world into conflict and its by design, satans design not the zionists themselves, Im sure there are plenty of nice zionists with good intentions just like mormons catholics, buddhists, wiccans, politicians, liars…I mean lawyers, etc. ad naseum but the doctrines are venom.

that's one of the most ignorant statements I can remember hearing in a long time.

Pray tell...what are the "venom doctrines" in saying that Israel, or any sovereign nation for that matter, has the right to live?

Yes, satan is the one designing the conflict because he has been at war with the God of Israel since forever. (rev 12)

Which side are you on?

[nebula]

Zionism is a nasty piece of work thats dragging the whole world into conflict and its by design, satans design not the zionists themselves,

Zech 12

1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, 2 "Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around ; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. 3 "It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples ; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.

Satan, huh?

What's your Scriptural justification for this claim?

[mizzdy]

There is, of course, very strong language against Judaizers in the NT, for utterly practical reasons, and by their day's standards they were Zionist.

--Inter

From what I have searched out the Judaizers were those who kept trying to force the new converts into the Messainic way to conform to rabbinical ways, ie, that you must be circumcised, etc. Zionism in its truest form only upholds the right of the Jewish people to have a land of their own, Jerusalem and the land of their ancestors. There certainly are in any org those who subvert and want to take things to other levels but as a whole Zionist only want what was promised to them. I dont see the Judaizers as trying to kick anyone out, but to make them convert to ways not given in by Yeshua. Yeshua didnt say you must be circumcised to be a set apart person etc. thats what Judaizers were doing going against what was taught by the apostles. I have also read that these Judaizers were crafty magicians, fortune tellers and the like.

shalom,

Mizz

[coheir]

Being anti-zionist does not automatically make one anti-semitic. There are jews who are anti-zionist.

Within the community of Israel and the jewish people, that is a legitimate debate and I don't wish to interfere.

Outside of that, anti-zionist is a euphemism for those who want the "final solution" imposed on the jews.

Yod, that is simply not true. I am a Christian and I am anti-zionism. I certainly am not anti-semitic. I recognize jews as the chosen people and pray for their salvation. I wish no harm on anyone. But, I agree with the jews who do not support zionism.

How can you say you pray for their salvation while denying them a homeland?

No, I maintain that there is no reasonable argument against jewish people living in Israel. The ultra-religious who are against zionism believe that God must be the one who establishes the nation in accordance with all unfulfilled messianic prophecy. Since I believe God is sovereign, then He allowed the circumstances which got us to today, and the fulfillment of messianic prophecy will follow.

But outside of that inter-familial squabble, those who deny the jews access to the land THEY bought and THEY reclaimed from swamps and desert wasteland that no one else wanted, are not interested in the welfare of jews or their claim to an ancient homeland.

There are various reasons they may state, but it's unreasonable for anyone to say that Jews should not be allowed to live safely in Israel.

PERIOD.

I never said jews did not have a right to live in Zion. Jews were living in Zion before the nation-state of Israel was established. Some of the Jews living in Zion previously were some of the main opponents of zionism.

I have no wish to get into a heated debate. We are all entitled to our point of view. Anyone who wishes to further investigate may google "jews against zionism." I happen to agree with the Jews who feel this way. Funny how agreeing with orthodox jews makes one anti-semitic.

Quote from katyAnn (Jews were living in Zion before the nation-state of Israel was established.) Impossible

The names Israel, Israeli or Jewish refer to people of the same origin.

Gen 35: 10 Thy name is Jacob, thy name shall not be Jacob anymore but shall be Israel. Jacob led Israel into Egypt during the famine.

Gen 46:2 And God spake to Israel in visions of the night and said Jacob Jacob and he said here am I.

Gen 46: 3 And he said I am God, the God of thy father; fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make the a great nation.

Exo 1:1 Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.

Edited June 5, 2012 by coheir

[Guest yod]

There is, of course, very strong language against Judaizers in the NT, for utterly practical reasons, and by their day's standards they were Zionist.

--Inter

You can't be serious?

[xero]

Read Galatians 3 and tell me who is the seed of Abraham heir to the promise then tell me what you think about my ignorance.

[Guest yod]

Read Galatians 3 and tell me who is the seed of Abraham heir to the promise then tell me what you think about my ignorance.

First you need to explain why your ignorance or your salvation status has anything to do with the question of whether jewish people have the right to live, and live free within their own homeland?

[Botz]

I don't think there would be different positions within Christian Zionism, but there would about it. One of the first distinctions would be those who are Zionist without being Christian.

A conservative rabbi in the US with a national talk show recently said 'we don't believe Christ was the Messiah because when Messiah arrives the world is made over, and Israel has a secure place there. Jesus did neither.' So this also raises the question of whether all Christians are Zionist. They are not. Because to be a Christian means to accept that Jesus did accomplish what He was suppose to when He came, and that the rabbi's objections are the exact ones Jesus met when He came. The Christian position about such history is found historically-stated in Paul's sermon in Acts 13. The resurrection for justification from sins is the fulfillment of everything God promised to (their) fathers.

--Inter

The majority of Christians are in the Replacement Theology camp therefore by default they are anti-Zionist, even though I suspect the vast majority are ignorant of their default position.

When Christians have had the teaching that they belong to an entity called the 'Church' and that this 'Church' has superceded Israel, pumped through their veins over centuries, it is

never going to be easy to shift them as a whole from this position...it has to be personal revelation from Scripture through the Holy Spirit....in much the same way that many Catholics

come to the realization that many of the traditions of the Fathers they have been taught are actually sand that falls through their fingers, or as the Bible puts it, wood, hay and stubble.

Some believe that modern Israel cannot be of G-d because it was formed out of the vision of secular men and women, many of whom although Jews, were Atheistic in their beliefs.

The thing is G-d is able to use the passion and allow things to come to pass that fit in with His divine plan...someone incorrectly stated at near the beginning of this thread that only

believing Jews (those who acknowledge Yeshua) are allowed to possess the land, but that is not what Scripture states, and it seems evident that amongst everything that is taking

place, G-d is bring His people back to the land, and will at some point bring them en masse to the valley of decision, but in the meantime more Jews are turning to Messiah within

Israel than has happened since the second century...even though it is a comparative trickle in human terms.