tongues

[asper]

Asper, I don't really care what videos you link to, or what your innuendo might be. Speaking in tongues is a gift from God. And that is straight from scripture.

There are posers and liars anywhere. Within the church as well. We are after all all sinners, and no one can deny that. Let God deal with them.

But God knows my heart, no one else, and I have spoken in tongues to Him on occasion.

And I know at the time the Holy Spirit was upon me.

Because there are prayers that break the backs of words.........

my bold in quote,

hi fez, thanks for a strait answer.

so why associate with people that walk disorderly?

Edited July 18, 2012 by asper

[Fez]

Asper, I don't really care what videos you link to, or what your innuendo might be. Speaking in tongues is a gift from God. And that is straight from scripture.

There are posers and liars anywhere. Within the church as well. We are after all all sinners, and no one can deny that. Let God deal with them.

But God knows my heart, no one else, and I have spoken in tongues to Him on occasion.

And I know at the time the Holy Spirit was upon me.

Because there are prayers that break the backs of words.........

my bold in quote,

hi fez, thanks for a strait answer.

so why associate with people that walk disorderly?

Because Jesus did.

[asper]

I checked the video's out. When stupid people (Bible calls them the foolish) give evidence of something, then It's nothing but stupid people with nothing better to do.

One guys said the the other.... "Man, everyone says I hear this from God, or I have a prophecy about that from God. It's hard to tell whats right or not right."

The other Guy Said: .............. "Ummm, I am not sure what bothers me more, all those that claim to hear from God and claim to operate in the gifts, or the ones that never hear from God, and expect nothing."

Jesus Is Lord

i would not call that evidence

[asper]

Asper, I don't really care what videos you link to, or what your innuendo might be. Speaking in tongues is a gift from God. And that is straight from scripture.

There are posers and liars anywhere. Within the church as well. We are after all all sinners, and no one can deny that. Let God deal with them.

But God knows my heart, no one else, and I have spoken in tongues to Him on occasion.

And I know at the time the Holy Spirit was upon me.

Because there are prayers that break the backs of words.........

my bold in quote,

hi fez, thanks for a strait answer.

so why associate with people that walk disorderly?

Because Jesus did.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

[Stan53]

Hi stan, and sevenseas,

Change the subject all you want I can still focus on the point.

The point being (for those who need help) is there are many people of different beliefs and there are those who make a mockery out of God.

The videos are one proof of people making a mockery out of God.

The proof of different beliefs lie in the following,

When I was a roman catholic charismatic I went to the meeting along with other roman catholic charismatics who also spoke in tongues also. Most prayed to mary almost exclusively. Mary received most of their worship by their adoration and the way they talked.

So you can act ignorant of these things which would make me conclude that you guys are not very observant or that you are just ignoring the facts.

The question I have then is, the behavior that the videos showed of your groups, is that acceptable to you guys/girls. If it is then all I have to say is that you guys/girls are the ones with the problem

The videos are not IN context so making a judgment out of context is like someone seeing you at a magazine rack looking at a computer mag right beside the Playboy mag.

The reason we have the Bible to is KNOW what is acceptable and what is not. It's also the reason we have teachers. Please stop using the RC church to point out bad habits. I was RC and yes they have a lot of BAD habits. However there are many RC's who are truly born again believers.

You have no way of knowing what is acceptable to me unless I tell you, and I didn't tell you the links you provided were acceptable behaviour, because I wasn't there. I don't make judgment calls based on videos. Just remember when you point a finger at someone saying they are the problem or have a problem, there are three of your own fingers pointing back at yourself.

It’s all evidence and it doesn’t matter what context because there is no context where this is acceptable.

Just in case I missed something let me ask you where would this conduct be acceptable?

Of course if you did not watch them how would you know?

The mention about the rc is because you questioned my link about many belief systems.

Quote,

I read the link you provided and it is full of unsupported assertions, from someone I have never personally heard of, or for whose credentials I can validate.

unquote

So I used some personal experiences to show my point.

Please try to pay attention…

They are indications of how some people use speaking in tongues. Like I said I wasn't there so I can't know what the context was and neither do you obviously. Your lack of understanding or even having a correct perspective to assess these videos, invalidates your conclusions.

Yes I guess I did observe that you seem to have not been able to settle on one belief.

Like I said, I read the link. Not ALL of it, but enough to know where this guy was going, and to assess he was wrong. That is the benefit of knowing Christ as your Saviour and knowing God's Word.

Please resist the urge to get snotty.... I don't need to address your posts you know.

[asper]

Hi stan, and sevenseas,

Change the subject all you want I can still focus on the point.

The point being (for those who need help) is there are many people of different beliefs and there are those who make a mockery out of God.

The videos are one proof of people making a mockery out of God.

The proof of different beliefs lie in the following,

When I was a roman catholic charismatic I went to the meeting along with other roman catholic charismatics who also spoke in tongues also. Most prayed to mary almost exclusively. Mary received most of their worship by their adoration and the way they talked.

So you can act ignorant of these things which would make me conclude that you guys are not very observant or that you are just ignoring the facts.

The question I have then is, the behavior that the videos showed of your groups, is that acceptable to you guys/girls. If it is then all I have to say is that you guys/girls are the ones with the problem

The videos are not IN context so making a judgment out of context is like someone seeing you at a magazine rack looking at a computer mag right beside the Playboy mag.

The reason we have the Bible to is KNOW what is acceptable and what is not. It's also the reason we have teachers. Please stop using the RC church to point out bad habits. I was RC and yes they have a lot of BAD habits. However there are many RC's who are truly born again believers.

You have no way of knowing what is acceptable to me unless I tell you, and I didn't tell you the links you provided were acceptable behaviour, because I wasn't there. I don't make judgment calls based on videos. Just remember when you point a finger at someone saying they are the problem or have a problem, there are three of your own fingers pointing back at yourself.

It’s all evidence and it doesn’t matter what context because there is no context where this is acceptable.

Just in case I missed something let me ask you where would this conduct be acceptable?

Of course if you did not watch them how would you know?

The mention about the rc is because you questioned my link about many belief systems.

Quote,

I read the link you provided and it is full of unsupported assertions, from someone I have never personally heard of, or for whose credentials I can validate.

unquote

So I used some personal experiences to show my point.

Please try to pay attention…

They are indications of how some people use speaking in tongues. Like I said I wasn't there so I can't know what the context was and neither do you obviously. Your lack of understanding or even having a correct perspective to assess these videos, invalidates your conclusions.

Yes I guess I did observe that you seem to have not been able to settle on one belief.

Like I said, I read the link. Not ALL of it, but enough to know where this guy was going, and to assess he was wrong. That is the benefit of knowing Christ as your Saviour and knowing God's Word.

Please resist the urge to get snotty.... I don't need to address your posts you know.

Please spare me. I gave one witty remark. Sorry Mr. innocent.

Continuing on,

There are videos there not just words. Hence evidence.

As far as your opinion of me it just shows your inability to respond to me with evidence instead of just opinions, yours and others I assume.

[nebula]

For the third time -

btw i used to be a roman catholic charismatic

What are you now?

[asper]

For the third time -

btw i used to be a roman catholic charismatic

What are you now?

baptist, some would call me calvinistic, i would be closest to spurgeon in beliefs.

so what are you?

[nebula]

For the third time -

btw i used to be a roman catholic charismatic

What are you now?

baptist, some would call me calvinistic, i would be closest to spurgeon in beliefs.

so what are you?

Thank you!

Me? I don't define myself by a denomination. I just align myself with the passionate God-seekers. But I do believe the outpouring of the Spirit is just as much for us today as it was for the first century followers of Yeshua.

[Guest Norrin Radd]

For Norrin Radd and #15.

Paul did hint they were not genuine at Corinth. That's when he quoted the OT passage about them being for unbelievers as a sign.

Could you explain your thinking? I don't see anything about what he said there, nor in the Isa. passage he cited, that suggests the tongues at Corinth were not genuine.

re the speaking v. hearing miracle on the day of Pentecost. If the visitors could handle both Greek and Aramaic (and we have the translation of what was spoken before us), why the miraculous bother their own languages?

Edit to add:

Perhaps symbolic of the reversal of Babel.

More likely in the immediate context of Acts, and the context of the Gospels, a miraculous symbolic illustration that the Gospel was intended not just for their fellow Jews in the immediate environs, but for all people at the most distant "ends of the earth." Peter needed another miraculous reminder in ch. 10, hence the vision and the event that culminated with Cornelius and his household being saved and speaking in tongues. There the purpose of the tongues was clearly not evangelism, and since Peter later explicitly likened that event to the one in ch. 2, that argues that the purpose there was also not evangelism.

(Sorry about this late addition. Since I'm way TOO "Worthy," my posts are moderated to subdue my great and terrifying Worthiness. I remembered just after I posted this the first time that I'd skipped this section. I had to wait until the Site Angel Modatron approved and posted it to go back and edit.)

I suppose there are some who do not think the 'mighty acts of God' of 2:11 is the historic redemptive Gospel itself, but just the sounds. I'd have to know why.

Yes, there are "some" who believe the "mighty acts of God" does not refer to the Gospel message. The only people I know who DO believe that refers to the Gospel are cessationists.

There are at least four reasons in Acts for taking it to be something else, namely expressions of praise:

1) As noted, Peter gives a Gospel message later in the same context.

2) Acts 10 records another occasion of tongues-speaking in conjunction with the coming-upon of the Spirit. In that case, there is no need for evangelism, since there were no longer any unbelievers present. The only unbelievers who HAD been present had just been filled with the Spirit and were the ones speaking in tongues. And the CONTENT of their speech was explicitly "exalting" or "magnifying" or "praising" God, not preaching of the Gospel. Any of those would qualify as a concise equivalent of "declaring the mighty deeds of God" in ch. 2. Further, in ch. 11, Peter explicitly likens the coming-upon of the Spirit in ch. 10 to the one in ch. 2, so one would reasonably infer the purpose and content of the "tongues" was similar.

3) In ch. 19, the Spirit falls upon the group at Ephesus. Again there are no unbelievers present, so there is neither need for, nor evidence of, evangelism as a purpose for the tongues.

4) In ch. 2, the reaction of the mockers is suggestive. While I don't believe anything in the chapter implies those who had just been filled with the Spirit were behaving in a genuinely intoxicated fashion -- i.e. staggering or falling -- I also don't think it's reasonable that their merely standing there "preaching" in tongues would motivate accusations of drunkenness. In infer they were behaving in a joyful, celebratory manner.

I am always puzzled by those who take 2:6 as a proclamation of the Gospel, as if the rest of chapter 2 and the other two "tongues" events in Acts did not exist.

The event concludes the ages of Babel's language confusion on the magnificent note of the gift of Jesus Christ. And the Spirit enabled other language-speaking that day for that reason (2:6). I think everyone there realized that just as Babel (the last event before the Biblical story focused on Israel) was a mighty judgement of God, Pentecost was a mighty redemptive act of God, disseminating the Gospel in a burst, near the end of the focus on Israel.

It does make a nice parallel. One could also take it as an introduction to the Church as the new, grafted-in Israel, temporarily replacing the broken-off Israel.

Since Pentecost was roughly contemporaneous with the anniversary of the Giving of the Law at Sinai, and over the centuries came to be celebrated at least partially as a memorial of that event, it's also interesting to see this as the initiation of the Age of the Spirit, replacing the Age of Law.

But all of that is of course speculation, since nothing stated in the text makes any explicit association to either Babel or Sinai.

There is also this structure of the Bible to note:

Flood--physical judgement on all mankind for evil

Babel--linguistic judgement on mankind before Israel

Pentecost--linguistic redemption for mankind after Israel

Parousia--physical redemption for all mankind

...sort of an A-B-B-A structure of events that has been pointed out many times.

Perhaps, but it's a notion I've never seen before now. It's sort of interesting, but totally speculative, and IMO a bit flimsy.

so 2:6 says it is not in the hearing but the speaking, and the languages are identified, and the visitors (relative to the Gospel) are unbelievers. In Judaism, yes, but the Christian declaration is being made that the crucified Jesus has been made Lord and Messiah by the resurrection, which is the standard appeal to Judaism.

I don't get your point.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Norrin Radd