OP: The rise of the intolerance brigade

[enoob57]

Oh dear, lieber Steven.

I am not afraid of hell. Not in the slightest. I am so afraid in your version of Hell as you are in the Muslim's version of it.

I think we already went through it

Ciao

- viole

Not all Christians have the same version. With us, Hell is viewed as a state of being. It is simply being eternally separated from God.

Rv 14:9-11

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

NKJV

Not all believe in verbal plenary inspiration ... however I know God and I know His Words are verbal plenary inspired to the nth degree!

If you have any disagreement see the Inspiration! Love, Steven

The images of Hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted in light of who God is. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life andjoy.

Christian faith teaches that humans make the choice of whether they want to be with God or to reject Him. They are already spiritual creatures that rebelled against God's love and are called demons. What happened to them is a warning to us: it is a continuous call to avoid the tragedy which leads to sin and to conform our life to that of Jesus who lived his life with a "yes" to God. The thought of Hell must not create anxiety or despair, but is a necessary and healthy reminder of freedom within the proclamation that the risen Jesus has conquered Satan, giving us the, Spirit of God who makes us cry "Abba, Father!"

"Eternal damnation", therefore, is not attributed to God's initiative because in His merciful love He can only desire the salvation of the beings He created. In reality, it is the person who closes himself to God's love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God's judgement ratifies this state.

Mmh, what do you mean with death as permanent separation from God? You mean real death, like the termination of all conscious activities? No life after "death" in an unpleasant place for the ones who rejected God?

Ciao

- viole

Hell is not considered a place you go to. It is a state of being eternally separated from God. The soul in Hell is aware. God is the source of all joy and happiness. The soul separated from God does not feel any joy or happiness because they are separated from joy and happiness. Theirs will be a lack of joy and happiness. In other words, all they have is complete frustration and emptiness. The emptiness they feel in their state of being is already death.

I am currently separated from God; it does not look so bad

Ciao

- viole

That's only because according to The Lord you are blind and cannot see the truth... Love, Steven

[enoob57]

Oh dear, lieber Steven.

I am not afraid of hell. Not in the slightest. I am so afraid in your version of Hell as you are in the Muslim's version of it.

I think we already went through it

Ciao

- viole

Not all Christians have the same version. With us, Hell is viewed as a state of being. It is simply being eternally separated from God.

Rv 14:9-11

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

NKJV

Not all believe in verbal plenary inspiration ... however I know God and I know His Words are verbal plenary inspired to the nth degree!

If you have any disagreement see the Inspiration! Love, Steven

The images of Hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted in light of who God is. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life andjoy.

Christian faith teaches that humans make the choice of whether they want to be with God or to reject Him. They are already spiritual creatures that rebelled against God's love and are called demons. What happened to them is a warning to us: it is a continuous call to avoid the tragedy which leads to sin and to conform our life to that of Jesus who lived his life with a "yes" to God. The thought of Hell must not create anxiety or despair, but is a necessary and healthy reminder of freedom within the proclamation that the risen Jesus has conquered Satan, giving us the, Spirit of God who makes us cry "Abba, Father!"

"Eternal damnation", therefore, is not attributed to God's initiative because in His merciful love He can only desire the salvation of the beings He created. In reality, it is the person who closes himself to God's love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God's judgement ratifies this state.

Mmh, what do you mean with death as permanent separation from God? You mean real death, like the termination of all conscious activities? No life after "death" in an unpleasant place for the ones who rejected God?

Ciao

- viole

Hell is not considered a place you go to. It is a state of being eternally separated from God. The soul in Hell is aware. God is the source of all joy and happiness. The soul separated from God does not feel any joy or happiness because they are separated from joy and happiness. Theirs will be a lack of joy and happiness. In other words, all they have is complete frustration and emptiness. The emptiness they feel in their state of being is already death.

I am currently separated from God; it does not look so bad

Ciao

- viole

That's only because according to The Lord you are blind and cannot see the truth... Love, Steven

Can I use that as an excuse?

Ciao

- viole

No and those are my tears .... because it is willfull blindness you know that the universe suggest God as the

only answer by you will not! Love, Steven

[HAZARD]

Obviously, the only success we will get out of this convo is headaches from butting heads.

Taking my leave.

No, if you make a coherent case that I am incorrect I will accept it and change my mind. I'm good like that. I did it once before, when I went from Anglican to atheist.

Ah well. Bye, then.

Nebula, he sounds like a typical smart-alek sodomite loving wanker who thinks he has all the answeres!

In a nutshell, Australia is full of Sodomites, its nearly as bad as Sodom itself. When visiting here never say this to anyone when in a bar in Sydney or you may end up getting more than you bargined for.

Three things never to say if you happen to end up in a bar in Kings Cross.

1. Can I bum a fag off you mate?

2. I'll toss you for the next drinks.

3. Hang on - I'll on push your stool in for ya.

The place has gone to the dogs since they have come out of the closet.

[wingnut-]

And that is her choice. We can't force people to accept or love God. And God will also not force them to accept or love Him. God values and respects the free will of His creatures even if that free will leads to their own downfall and destruction. Of course, God loves them, but if they find themselves in Hell, it is because they chose to be there.

I don't want to dig into the obvious absurdity of choosing or not choosing things wich I (and the majority of humans on this planet) consider non-existing.

But I have another question. Supposing that free will exists, wouldn't we better off without it?

Ciao

- viole

We wouldn't exist without it viole, and Adam and Eve would still be hanging out in the garden of eden.

[nebula]

But I have another question. Supposing that free will exists, wouldn't we better off without it?

What kind of love would you and your husband have with each other if free will did not exist?

[wingnut-]

And that is her choice. We can't force people to accept or love God. And God will also not force them to accept or love Him. God values and respects the free will of His creatures even if that free will leads to their own downfall and destruction. Of course, God loves them, but if they find themselves in Hell, it is because they chose to be there.

I don't want to dig into the obvious absurdity of choosing or not choosing things wich I (and the majority of humans on this planet) consider non-existing.

But I have another question. Supposing that free will exists, wouldn't we better off without it?

Ciao

- viole

We wouldn't exist without it viole, and Adam and Eve would still be hanging out in the garden of eden.

Well, if you attribute value to free will because we exist, then you are forced to attribute equal or even more value to sin, because without it, we would not exist either

You seem to indicate that sin is a direct and unavoidable consequence of free will, and we should rejoice this. I say that, because free will alone could have not sufficed to cause our existence (Adam and Eve could have chosen not to sin).

Ciao

- viole

Viole, I indicated nothing, you are assigning interpretations to my answer that are simply not there. The fact is, if not for free will, we would not exist, nothing more, nothing less. Sin was a result of the choice Adam made, and creation has suffered the consequences of that choice. I guess the question is whether you find anything of value in existing or not, God bless.

[nebula]

Well, love, like other superior cognitive processes of the human brain can be a subject of rational and scientific inquiry. For instance, it appears that romantic love is an evolutionary adaptation induced by the long time and resources required until our kids are independent. Evolutionary fitness is helped by mental processes that favor long term relationships (aka romantic love) for exactly that reason.

However, I am sure it will be very interesting to measure love at neurological level, that is, the dependencies or inter-dependencies that exist between the processes we consciously recognize as "romantic love" and other superior processes like face recognition or the processes responsible of "free will" illusion. For instance, I am not sure I will still love my husband if I receive some damage of the fusiform gyrus or if I experience other hormonal or degenerative illnesses like Alzheimer. It really seems like romantic love is also an emergent property of the brain that starts and ceases depending on the current biochemical state of it.

But I am digressing...

Your question is interesting. Romantic love seems to be one of the things our "free" will has not much power upon. Can you really choose to love or stop loving someone? That does not look very romantic.

Wow, just wow.

You speak like a man that has no heart.

You truly believe you love your husband because your neurons made you feel this way?

If all you think of "love" is nothing more than romantic hormonal tingles, then you are far removed from the real world.

Intellectually-arrogant atheists baffle me.

[Guest ninhao]

I am not a dualist, like most of neuro-scientists (including women). As a non-dualist, we think that all things we feel like love, hate, liking eating pizza, illusion of free will, fear of death, headaches, spiritual experiences, etc.. are all emergent and computational properties of the physical functioning of our brain, and can be affected by chemicals or physical manipulations.

This reminded me of a Matrix quote.

Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?

[Takes a bite of steak]

Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.

No relevance just funny.

[Guest ninhao]

I am not a dualist, like most of neuro-scientists (including women). As a non-dualist, we think that all things we feel like love, hate, liking eating pizza, illusion of free will, fear of death, headaches, spiritual experiences, etc.. are all emergent and computational properties of the physical functioning of our brain, and can be affected by chemicals or physical manipulations.

This reminded me of a Matrix quote.

Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?

[Takes a bite of steak]

Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.

No relevance just funny.

More relevant than you think, even without the Matrix

Ciao

- viole

You think ?

Zai jian

-ninhao

[enoob57]

Cut loose in the infinite is exactly what I would expect from all this Viole... you are in fluid like state of non relevance- you question everything with

absolutely no conclusions! The conclusion 'IS' meet truth we are in the infinite and it 'IS' determined with infinite variables so that no being other

than God Himself may know! You say I do not see-> LOOK! People walk in circles when lost-> it is relative to the sphere they are connected to

so if we are affected by what we are connected yet unaware that this influence exists... I would say it is the graves influence of the dying body

that pulls you to your conclusions! Love, Steven