Does God will to heal ALL who come to Him for healing?

[gdemoss]

God will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Once saved all scripture that applies to those that are saved applies to the one who got saved. This is a given. God is willing to heal all who are sick that are saved.

The Bible does not make that kind of blanket statement. There are lots of Scriptures that only applied to original audience. While all Scripture is relevant to the believer, not all Scripture is necessarily applicable. Relevance and applicability are not the same thing.

You don't have to believe the text Shiloh, that's between you and God. I simply believe that God wills all men to be saved as it says.

Jam 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

So God is not willing that any should be sick but that all should follow his instructions that he laid out in the scriptures and be healed.

Well since this is the formula you are holding out, tell me this... What about people who don't have the means to follow those exact instructions. What about Christians in other countries who are in prison and have no access to elders or oil? Who can't ask anyone to pray for them??? How do these instructions help them??

Shiloh, I hope you didn't think that I was giving you the 'only' way to receive healing by the hand of the Lord. I just threw out a simple example of coverage. Nothing will please you though and we both know that because you are absolutely sure your right.

God is sovereign. If one needs something, God can provide. Prisons do not stop God, just ask Peter and those who prayed for him or Paul for that matter. God can heal any way he likes, with or without oil etc. The purpose of the text I provided was to mercifully give those who are in the body who become ill an instruction they can follow by faith to achieve healing. Just as Nayman the Syrian had to follow Gods instruction through the man of God to be healed, so do these but it doesn't limit God in how he heals.

Deuteronomy 7 shows us a promise of God to Israel that he will take away all manner of sickness from them if they will keep his covenant. He doesn't exclude anyone but does make it conditional. We serve a conditional God who is the same yesterday, today and forever. Yet you come to the conclusion that God won't heal his people if they come to him keeping his covenant with him. I disagree.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Guest shiloh357]

You don't have to believe the text Shiloh, that's between you and God. I simply believe that God wills all men to be saved as it says.

I was responding to your blanket statement about healing, not salvation.

Shiloh, I hope you didn't think that I was giving you the 'only' way to receive healing by the hand of the Lord. I just threw out a simple example of coverage. Nothing will please you though and we both know that because you are absolutely sure your right.

That is not exactly true. All I am asking is for you to produce the promise that says God's will is to heal 100% of the time. No such promises have been made by God. You are having to draw subjective inferences.

God is sovereign. If one needs something, God can provide. Prisons do not stop God, just ask Peter and those who prayed for him or Paul for that matter. God can heal any way he likes, with or without oil etc. The purpose of the text I provided was to mercifully give those who are in the body who become ill an instruction they can follow by faith to achieve healing. Just as Nayman the Syrian had to follow Gods instruction through the man of God to be healed, so do these but it doesn't limit God in how he heals.

Okay, I will agree that God is not limited and can do as He pleases. That having been said, He still hasn't provided any promise to heal everyone 100% of the time.

There are many well-known teachers who publicly taught that God will heal 100% of the time who have died as a result of sicknesses that they claimed to have authority over.

Deuteronomy 7 shows us a promise of God to Israel that he will take away all manner of sickness from them if they will keep his covenant. He doesn't exclude anyone but does make it conditional. We serve a conditional God who is the same yesterday, today and forever. Yet you come to the conclusion that God won't heal his people if they come to him keeping his covenant with him. I disagree.

That was a promise relating to the general condition of the nation. He was not promising that not one citizen of Israel would experience sickness or disease. There is a great danger in taking what was promised to a nation and applying it on a personal level. Nothing in the covenant promised that there would be no sickness at all.

[gdemoss]

There are many well-known teachers who publicly taught that God will heal 100% of the time who have died as a result of sicknesses that they claimed to have authority over.

You are absolutely correct and I make no such claim. My statement has been that God wills for all to be healed. The vast reasons why all who come to him are not healed are various and complex. It is just as God wills that all be saved but not all will be saved.

That was a promise relating to the general condition of the nation. He was not promising that not one citizen of Israel would experience sickness or disease. There is a great danger in taking what was promised to a nation and applying it on a personal level. Nothing in the covenant promised that there would be no sickness at all.

Can you prove your assertions from scripture rather than just declaring your additions to scripture as valid? There is a great danger in adding to scripture. As an Israelite under the covenant agreement, I would have fully expected the promises of God to apply to me as an individual. You may believe as you do but I do not. I believe that healing is available to all who believe.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357, on 16 August 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

There are many well-known teachers who publicly taught that God will heal 100% of the time who have died as a result of sicknesses that they claimed to have authority over.

You are absolutely correct and I make no such claim. My statement has been that God wills for all to be healed. The vast reasons why all who come to him are not healed are various and complex. It is just as God wills that all be saved but not all will be saved.

Yeah, that is not going to fly. Your position is that God will heal 100% of those who come to Him just like He will save 100% of those who come to Him. I am asking where in the word of God is there a promise in that regard where healing is concerned. Where does the Bible say that God's will for healing is identical to His will concerning salvation???

Can you prove your assertions from scripture rather than just declaring your additions to scripture as valid? There is a great danger in adding to scripture. As an Israelite under the covenant agreement, I would have fully expected the promises of God to apply to me as an individual. You may believe as you do but I do not. I believe that healing is available to all who believe.

I have not added anything to the scriptures. I have not read anything into it that is not there. I keep bringing you back to the core issue. Where is the promise that God will 100% of those who come to Him for healing??? You seem unable or unwilling to produce anything from the Word of God that makes such a claim. If no such claim from the Lord exists, you should swallow your pride and admit that you have overstated God's willingness to heal. If you can't produce the claim and you won't admit that it isn't there, YOU are the one adding to the Scriptures.

[gdemoss]

shiloh357, on 16 August 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

There are many well-known teachers who publicly taught that God will heal 100% of the time who have died as a result of sicknesses that they claimed to have authority over.

You are absolutely correct and I make no such claim. My statement has been that God wills for all to be healed. The vast reasons why all who come to him are not healed are various and complex. It is just as God wills that all be saved but not all will be saved.

Yeah, that is not going to fly. Your position is that God will heal 100% of those who come to Him just like He will save 100% of those who come to Him. I am asking where in the word of God is there a promise in that regard where healing is concerned. Where does the Bible say that God's will for healing is identical to His will concerning salvation???

Can you prove your assertions from scripture rather than just declaring your additions to scripture as valid? There is a great danger in adding to scripture. As an Israelite under the covenant agreement, I would have fully expected the promises of God to apply to me as an individual. You may believe as you do but I do not. I believe that healing is available to all who believe.

I have not added anything to the scriptures. I have not read anything into it that is not there. I keep bringing you back to the core issue. Where is the promise that God will 100% of those who come to Him for healing??? You seem unable or unwilling to produce anything from the Word of God that makes such a claim. If no such claim from the Lord exists, you should swallow your pride and admit that you have overstated God's willingness to heal. If you can't produce the claim and you won't admit that it isn't there, YOU are the one adding to the Scriptures.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

I never said God will heal 100% who come to him. I said it is Gods will that all be healed. You add to scripture and cannot yourself prove your own claims that something must be understood as unto a whole nation and doesn't mean that they will all be healed if all obey and then misunderstand me when I make a statement. Now my statements could be poorly worded, that I will give you but Gods are not.

Gary

[nChrist]

Let's take a little trip down REALITY Lane. Almost countless miracles, signs, and wonders were performed during the Acts Period. Why? - Don't you know? - To help people believe in Jesus Christ and Glorify Him. The Acts Period is over. The Jews require a sign, and they got many of them, but most still rejected Jesus Christ as King and Messiah. Instead, they had Him crucified.

In REALITY, even the strongest Christians ALL get sick and eventually die - the rate being 100%. God still does as He pleases in Heaven and on earth, so God answers prayers and performs miracles when it is His Will to do so. There is no formula or number of steps that would require or force God to do anything. We all live in weak physical bodies that are subject to illness, disease, pain, deterioration, and eventual death. These conditions will not change until we are either absent from the body and present with the Lord or we receive our glorified bodies. As Christians, we don't get sick and die because we lack faith, and God does not withhold healing from us because of a lack of faith. God heals who He wishes according to His perfect will. Remember a basic FACT: God's Will WILL BE DONE 100% of the time.

Romans 8:18-23 KJV For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

[nChrist]

gdemoss

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

I never said God will heal 100% who come to him. I said it is Gods will that all be healed. You add to scripture and cannot yourself prove your own claims that something must be understood as unto a whole nation and doesn't mean that they will all be healed if all obey and then misunderstand me when I make a statement. Now my statements could be poorly worded, that I will give you but Gods are not.

Gary

IF it was God's Will that all be healed - ALL WOULD BE HEALED. Not all - not even most - are healed - so it wasn't God's Will that they be healed. Real simple.

[Guest shiloh357]

I never said God will heal 100% who come to him. I said it is Gods will that all be healed.

Does Jesus save everyone who comes to Him for salvation? Or does Jesus refuse salvation to some who request it?? You said that God's will toward healing was the same as his will toward salvation. So, if God is willing to save everyone who comes to Him, by your own line of reasoning, He should heal all of those who come to Him for healing. That is the only way you can argue this and still be internally consistent.

[gdemoss]

gdemoss

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

I never said God will heal 100% who come to him. I said it is Gods will that all be healed. You add to scripture and cannot yourself prove your own claims that something must be understood as unto a whole nation and doesn't mean that they will all be healed if all obey and then misunderstand me when I make a statement. Now my statements could be poorly worded, that I will give you but Gods are not.

Gary

IF it was God's Will that all be healed - ALL WOULD BE HEALED. Not all - not even most - are healed - so it wasn't God's Will that they be healed. Real simple.

You know, I probably agree with you but you don't understand what I am saying because your getting hung up on the different ways we are saying the same thing. You think I am saying something I am not. I believe you and I actually agree. Except it be for the part where you say that all Christians get sick and die. This is an error for obvious reasons. Though all Christians die, not all die from sickness but I understand your basic premise and agree with you. I think you are missing the point that I am making. It is Gods will for all to be healed but most do not live in a way or come into circumstances that make it righteous for him to do so.

Gary

[gdemoss]

I never said God will heal 100% who come to him. I said it is Gods will that all be healed.

Does Jesus save everyone who comes to Him for salvation? Or does Jesus refuse salvation to some who request it?? You said that God's will toward healing was the same as his will toward salvation. So, if God is willing to save everyone who comes to Him, by your own line of reasoning, He should heal all of those who come to Him for healing. That is the only way you can argue this and still be internally consistent.

If they come as he has prescribed then they will be saved. If they come as prescribed they will be healed.

Gary